Who here has seen real war action?

[dang65]

Why do you want to know? Do you need a new role model to wink over each night?

Stick to the Andy McNab novels.

There is no glory in war.

But Andy McNab writes about the trauma of war just as much as anyone else. I don't think I've read a single war book which claims that war is all about glory, from All Quiet On The Western Front to Wilfred Owen to Sven Hassel to Das Boot to The Death Of Yugoslavia to Andy McNab... they continuously bang on about the horror.

A lot of us have read these books and watched the documentaries and the films because we have a natural human fascination with war (possibly the males do more than the females, but whatever) and we have the message drummed in to us over and over - there is no glory in war.

But some people still insist on joining the army and getting in to real combat, getting scared witless and seeing their comrades killed - exactly as they've always been told would happen - and then they come back and start patronising everyone else with the "you weren't there, man" schtick.

It's a brave job those people do, and I could never do it myself, but they can't say they weren't warned. And they shouldn't hold some sort of superior stance over people who did read the books and got the message and decided, "no thanks!"

[Menelaus]

But Andy McNab writes about the trauma of war just as much as anyone else. I don't think I've read a single war book which claims that war is all about glory, from All Quiet On The Western Front to Wilfred Owen to Sven Hassel to Das Boot to The Death Of Yugoslavia to Andy McNab... they continuously bang on about the horror.

A lot of us have read these books and watched the documentaries and the films because we have a natural human fascination with war (possibly the males do more than the females, but whatever) and we have the message drummed in to us over and over - there is no glory in war.

But some people still insist on joining the army and getting in to real combat, getting scared witless and seeing their comrades killed - exactly as they've always been told would happen - and then they come back and start patronising everyone else with the "you weren't there, man" schtick.

It's a brave job those people do, and I could never do it myself, but they can't say they weren't warned. And they shouldn't hold some sort of superior stance over people who did read the books and got the message and decided, "no thanks!"

That's a reasonably well-written piece but I'd be careful with the suggestion of a "superior stance" being taken. We don't, and I'm pretty sure most ex-servicemen and women who've been on tour would hold civilians in contempt for not having done so.

A philosopher said in reaction to Norman Mailer (who had said that "War, like love, is one of the true mysteries of life") that the only person who should be anti-war is an intelligent man who's been to war.

From my point of view, I think that the "superior stance" that you're referring, understandably, is one of returning troops being berated by the populace (viz, R ANGLIANS return to Luton). That is a truly sickening sight.

[cailin maith]

That's a reasonably well-written piece but I'd be careful with the suggestion of a "superior stance" being taken. We don't, and I'm pretty sure most ex-servicemen and women who've been on tour would hold civilians in contempt for not having done so.

A philosopher said in reaction to Norman Mailer (who had said that "War, like love, is one of the true mysteries of life") that the only person who should be anti-war is an intelligent man who's been to war.

From my point of view, I think that the "superior stance" that you're referring, understandably, is one of returning troops being berated by the populace (viz, R ANGLIANS return to Luton). That is a truly sickening sight.

I agree with Menelaus -

I also think your (dang, I mean) line - "the start patronising everyone else with the "you weren't there, man" schtick." is bollocks in this context as none of these guys on here who have seen war have even tried to spin that line. They don't want to discuss it and thats their choice - it's hardly patronising.

[dang65]

I also think your (dang, I mean) line - "then start patronising everyone else with the "you weren't there, man" schtick." is bollocks in this context as none of these guys on here who have seen war have even tried to spin that line.

Imagine the worst fear that you can ever feel, the adrenaline coursing through your veins, your heartbeat pumping, the blood pressures up and you're there with your best mates.

Got that image in your head? OK.

Now multiply it by a billion - and you're still nowhere near close enough.

Now imagine reading advice like that since you were 10-years-old and getting the f**king message and not going to war. OK, Menelaus' message wasn't meant to be patronising, presumably, but it's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

[Moscow Mule]

The people who've done it, oddly enough, don't talk about it...

Andy McNab won't stop talking about it.

[Menelaus]

The people who've done it, oddly enough, don't talk about it...

The wannabees are the ones shouting their mouths off on the basis of zero experience.

WHS.

The more perceptive of you'll notice that I've been careful to say nothing of the actual experience in my posts; this is because, frankly, in my head, 18 years since the first time, I'm still fighting it.

[sweetandsour]

Now imagine reading advice like that since you were 10-years-old and getting the f**king message and not going to war. OK, Menelaus' message wasn't meant to be patronising, presumably, but it's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Strictly speaking though soldiers don't go to war, they are serving their country. It is their country that sends them to war.

Is that not a subtle, but significant, difference?

[BlasterBates]

Must admit quite fancy dressing up in a 19th century Napoleonic uniform and marching around in neat little squares. All those polished brass cannons and smartly groomed horses must have been quite a sight.

[dang65]

Strictly speaking though soldiers don't go to war, they are serving their country. It is their country that sends them to war.

Is that not a subtle, but significant, difference?

No.

[dang65]

The more perceptive of you'll notice that I've been careful to say nothing of the actual experience in my posts; this is because, frankly, in my head, 18 years since the first time, I'm still fighting it.

Catch-22.

That's another book that should be mentioned here.