SPAM laws

[DodgyAgent]

Cold Calling

Only if you pay for lunch and beer in a smoke-free pub

I think you are smart enough to make money in business field that is not agency -- its real shame you waste your talent on something that is so parasitic.



Its good law -- watered down as its still allowed to spam other businesses.

The law was created because businesses could not restrain themselves and really pissed off people with making money by pissing people off. We don't like cold calls and if its ruins somebody's business then this business should go to hell. Try to create business that actually creates something people QUEUE FOR instead of trying to push crap down their throats.



Why does it bother you? If did then it clearly did not affect nobody - if my driving was dangerous then I would have been done for it and it would be quiet right: if you smoke hash in privacy of your house and don't affect nobody then I think its fair enough, but if you piss people off with cold calls and lies then this DOES affect people and thus legislation is fair and necessary.

At some stage AtW "cold calling" needs to be done for any business transaction to take place, whether it be the advert on the TV, or the sight of goldjobs' website coming up whenever you do any job search on Google. What annoys people that I speak to is that Goldjobs hardly have any jobs on their site anyway. Now that is what I call an intrusive piece of "cold calling".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cold calling. Those people who work for banks, oil companies, search engines employ far more intrusive sales and marketing ploys than us clumsy low budget phone monkeys. I receive 20 cold calls a day of which I will take say 5. If someone is persistent and is professionally so I will eventually talk to him. My business systems are outsatndingly good, not because I looked up on Google, or read a glossy magazine, but because the people that sold them to me were very very good at selling me the benefits.

If a company is prepared to invest in employing and training outstandingly good, persistent, hungry and delivery orientated sales people it is usually a sign that they are a company offering a high quality service.

I do get a bit tired of idiots (all of who are not themselves business people), saying that a certain business is not a proper one. The whole point about a business - and a contractor is not a business, is that the market decides its value, not some spotty little nerd with a chip on his shoulder who sits behind a screen all day doing highly paid work without taking any responsibility for it.

[AtW]

At some stage AtW cold calling needs to be done for any business transaction to take place, whether it be the advert on the TV, or the sight of goldjobs' website coming up whenever you do any job search on Google.

BS.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cold calling.

People don't like coldcalls - their wish has to be respected, where as you give no concern about cold calls. When I was in "proper" job I had to take cold calls of businesses looking for manager responsible for this or that to try to sell them some package, or like water delivery. My answer to this is -- feck off: if YOUR SERVICE IS REALLY NEEDED then businesses would look up available providers and may or may not contact you. If its not happening then go create some business that does something that is actually REALLY NEEDED, something unique and valuable people would love to even queue for.

If a company is prepared to invest in employing and training outstandingly good, persistent, hungry and delivery orientated sales people it is usually a sign that they are a company offering a high quality service.

Bollox -- I worked for a "sales-driven" company and I can say that if company spends so much on sales people, especially if their salary structure is heavily commission geared (reminds you some business eh Dodgy?) then the company has not got really valuable quality service. If it had then it would not need "high quality sales people", like do you think a kid could not sell a highly popular car like new Porsche 911 that has got long waiting lists? You don't need saleperson to sell one of those -- it sells itself, but where you need salesperson is to BS their way on a car that nobody wants to buy really - that's why high presense of especially commission driven salesforce is a sign of company that has no good product.

IMO - there should be law that would FORCE salesperson to disclose up front commission level he or she gets for sale or an item. This is actually done in Financial Services I believe, but it should be applied elsewhere.

[DodgyAgent]

if YOUR SERVICE IS REALLY NEEDED then businesses would look up available providers and may or may not contact you. If its not happening then go create some business that does something that is actually REALLY NEEDED, something unique and valuable people would love to even queue for.

That is rude and unnecessary. Who judges whether a business is needed? Who are you to judge? How do you know whether a business is suitable to supply you unless you talk to someone and ask them questions?

Why on earth should commissions be declared? If that was the case then surely profits of companies being represented should be declared. You cannot get away from communism can you? No wonder you are out of work fiddling around with a poor man's google.

The financial services is an interesting example of unintended consequences of poor legislation:

Since pensions became regulated by the government and commissions to sellers of pensions have been cut everyone is trying to use the internet to sell them along with low paid financial advisors. The result? Because Pensions are one of those things that people dont think about other than as a cost there is no good pensions advice available, and no one is "selling" the (considerable) advantages of pensions as a concept, so therefore people are not saving for their old age.

The result?

You tell me.

[AtW]

That is rude and unnecessary. Who judges whether a business is needed? Who are you to judge? How do you know whether a business is suitable to supply you unless you talk to someone and ask them questions?

Consumers (businesses and individuals) are the ones to judge if business is doing something they want.

Why on earth should commissions be declared?

Because it shows conflict of interest -- salesperson would recommend the product he gets most commission for, this is not always (in fact rarely) the best choice for the buyer, thus commissions have to be declared so that buyer gets chance to make good purchase.

If that was the case then surely profits of companies being represented should be declared.

And you saying you do not declare profit of your company? Are you saying I can't go to the Companies House and check them? Or perhaps its communism already here?

FYI I hate communist and communists and choose not to live in Russia now because its effectively under control of scumbags I hate -- this is something you have no clue about because you never lived in communist and you just use its name to call things you personally don't like.

[bfg]

Cold calling is so popular

This is one of the most popular websites in the UK:
tps online notice there is also a section for corporate registration.

Today the spam blocked at the client's corporate gateway was running at a sedate 3-4,000 per hour, usually it climbs quite a bit higher than that. Figure out the bandwidth, cpu, manpower and other costs on that for yourself DA, then ask yourself why we are 3 contractors short of our needs.

[AtW]

why we are 3 contractors short of our needs.

I am sure he will say that had you not blocked that spam then he would have been able to offer your valuable service of being middle man in provision of contractor services...

[DodgyAgent]

This is one of the most popular websites in the UK:
tps online notice there is also a section for corporate registration.

Today the spam blocked at the client's corporate gateway was running at a sedate 3-4,000 per hour, usually it climbs quite a bit higher than that. Figure out the bandwidth, cpu, manpower and other costs on that for yourself DA, then ask yourself why we are 3 contractors short of our needs.

I am not sure that I am dealing with anyone who is capable of discussing anything logically here. I rather suspect that maybe I am banging my head against technology obsessed Geeks. You people seem to think that only established and big businesses have a right to exist as businesses. How on Earth does a small business establish itself unless the proprietor of that business picks up the phone and starts hustling ? Are you people saying that only businesses that have large advertising budgets should be allowed, thus ending cold calling once and for all?

AtW I despair with you. Your own business as a contractor (or any of you) would fail if no one was allowed to cold call. Remove agencies from the picture altogether and ask yourselves how you would obtain work if you were not allowed to call anyone who had not given you permission to call them in the first place.

Also AtW there is no such thing as a person who gives truly independent advice. Communism tried and failed to create a society where everyone worked and lived for the collective good. But human nature is the opposite to the tenets fo communism, and whether you like it or not everyone from mother Teresa to Genghis Khan instinctivly acts purely in their own self interest, whether that interest is curing the sick or murdering children.

This is why public services and monopolies in general do not work, this is why people with jobs for life are far less productive than those that work in a competitive environment. I cited the example of pension selling, this is a perfect illustration of how technology and government interference are failing society.

[wc2]

If anyones interested..

500ish mails out..

29 bounced

18 telephone calls - 10 resulted in business 8 - still working on
24 mails asking for more information - 7 resulted in business
3 mails telling me to feck off

It took me 3hrs to gather the mail addresses

Results - Got 17 new compaines I'm dealing with one of which is an excellent catch.

First mailshot that's every worked for me and it cost nothing !!

Happy Days

[DimPrawn]

Good for you. Just don't spam me or else I'll kill you.

[AtW]

AtW I despair with you. Your own business as a contractor (or any of you) would fail if no one was allowed to cold call.

I have not made any and not going to.

Bottom line is this - there are some laws that will be sooner or later used against you: your lies about having permission from an MD will only land you in hot water, its just a matter of time.

More importantly your business is doomed - in 10 years there won't be agents like you: you are just way too inefficient and your job can be done by a non-profit Ebay like structure that will match contractors/employees with employers. Very high level headhunting will certainly require specialised human input but you are really at the bottom of the foodchain in this respect, right?