SPAM laws

[DodgyAgent]

They have to come to you first and give you permission to contact them later.

So how do I get to them in the first place in order to get them to come to me?
Or do you suppose they employ thousands of people to trawl through websites looking for interesting goods/services for their business? If that was the case their staff would be spending large amounts of time locked away in the toilets.

[AtW]

So how do I get to them in the first place in order to get them to come to me?

DA - did you get a rebuff from your secretary today or its just your age showing?

How did businesses get customers before email marketing? And before direct marketing? Email marketing is an extention of existing marketing not its replacement.

Now I just realised that I am talking to a guy who makes money from cold calling, so for you spamming is neither unethical nor illegal, am I right?

[DodgyAgent]

DA - did you get a rebuff from your secretary today or its just your age showing?

How did businesses get customers before email marketing? And before direct marketing? Email marketing is an extention of existing marketing not its replacement.

Now I just realised that I am talking to a guy who makes money from cold calling, so for you spamming is neither unethical nor illegal, am I right?

Listen,

I like sitting on my fat old arse looking at porn all day, at least with email I can disguise looking at my screen as "MARKETING".

I'll get my coat

[AtW]

I'll get my coat

Touched some nerve eh?

Lets be honest here -- do you use cold calling? If not, how do you manage to change those phone calls from cold to "warm"? Can't same be done with email?

[DodgyAgent]

Touched some nerve eh?

Lets be honest here -- do you use cold calling? If not, how do you manage to change those phone calls from cold to "warm"? Can't same be done with email?

Of course AtW you are absolutly right, and yes I should be cold calling and using email as a follow up. The point I am trying to get to here is that I am not sure why people feel it necessary to ban so called spam. What I ask is the problem? Is email marketing intrusive? if that is the reason to ban it then surely any form of advertising/marketing can be deemed "intrusive".

Is there some "spam" that is okay (one off when you are trying to contact someone and all you get is an HR person trotting out "we have a preferred supplier" list, who would not understand a business benefit if it sneaked up and rogered her). Is there some spam that is clearly designed to brainwash like that selling Viagra, that is the real irritant?

Is it more intrusive to send a cold email than it is to send a letter?

My point is that not everything is black and white. I think there are different types of spam some of which (sent by me) is acceptable, and some of which (sent by computer people) which is not.

[AtW]

The point I am trying to get to here is that I am not sure why people feel it necessary to ban so called spam.

Well if YOU do not want to ban spam then YOU can choose to receive it -- lets create a list of WANT-TO-BE-COLD-CALLED-AND-SPAMMED list -- those who in it are fair play and nobody would complain.... but wait you would not like that because the whole point of cold call and spam is to contact ALL people regardless if they like it or not?

Thanks to Thunderbird spam does not bother me, but I wish there was a law making it legal to find those bastards who send 5-10 fraudlent scammy spammy emails WITH THE SAME CONTENT to the SAME email address.

Personally I take bigger issue with search engine spam since its more relevant to me now, but I still think that bastards who spam should be put behind bars with a 24/7 webcam showing their existance in the showers as a warning to those who want to spam.

By the way - in the EU and UK it is now illegal to send electronic communications (email, sms) to people who did not opt in or are existing customers -- fine for this is pretty hefty, up to 5k per incident I believe.

[DodgyAgent]

Well if YOU do not want to ban spam then YOU can choose to receive it -- lets create a list of WANT-TO-BE-COLD-CALLED-AND-SPAMMED list -- those who in it are fair play and nobody would complain.... but wait you would not like that because the whole point of cold call and spam is to contact ALL people regardless if they like it or not?

Thanks to Thunderbird spam does not bother me, but I wish there was a law making it legal to find those bastards who send 5-10 fraudlent scammy spammy emails WITH THE SAME CONTENT to the SAME email address.

Personally I take bigger issue with search engine spam since its more relevant to me now, but I still think that bastards who spam should be put behind bars with a 24/7 webcam showing their existance in the showers as a warning to those who want to spam.

By the way - in the EU and UK it is now illegal to send electronic communications (email, sms) to people who did not opt in or are existing customers -- fine for this is pretty hefty, up to 5k per incident I believe.

The thing about sales is that the less accessible the person is the more likely that he/she is the person you should be selling to. The last person you want is the type who is freely available. So us er "hunters of business" we have to be ever more imaginitive about how we get to people, many of who are protected by secretaries, even worse HR bods, and worst of all voicemail.

The thing about laws are that they are dreamt up by people who have absolutly no idea about how businesses operate. I have had a couple of managers threaten me with spamming legislation after I followed up a couple of emails. I simply told them that their managing director (I usually have the name) told me to contact them. The type of people who throw this sort of threat around are probably teccies who like the MPs who invent useless legislation understand nothing about business. And or they are too scared to check in case the MD has given permission. If they have the time to try and check my story then I would probably feel duty bound to tell their MD about the fact that they have too much time to waste

Either way you can bet that whatever you like that the person has no purchasing/hiring power in the company anyway.

Like most other laws they usually have unintended consequences anyway

[AtW]

The thing about laws are that they are dreamt up by people who have absolutly no idea about how businesses operate.

F..k your business -- the laws don't exist to favour businesses, laws exist to make sure that businesses can exist in such a way that they have positive effect on society.

I have had a couple of managers threaten me with spamming legislation after I followed up a couple of emails. I simply told them that their managing director (I usually have the name) told me to contact them.

So you basically lied to get out of the problem? And you think that society needs businesses like this? I doubt anyone would notice if you went bust -- one less agent means less competition for other agents, thus actually better chances of remaining agents finding contract.

I actually made formal complaint to UKs Data Commissioner about unsolicited sms text inviting me to switch to another contract. They followed it up (they have to legally) and that was one tick against that company -- a few more ticks and fines could start, so I did my job as a good citizen -- did not ignore scammy business practice ignorance of which allows scumbags run "businesses".

[DodgyAgent]

F..k your business -- the laws don't exist to favour businesses, laws exist to make sure that businesses can exist in such a way that they have positive effect on society.



So you basically lied to get out of the problem? And you think that society needs businesses like this? I doubt anyone would notice if you went bust -- one less agent means less competition for other agents, thus actually better chances of remaining agents finding contract.

I actually made formal complaint to UKs Data Commissioner about unsolicited sms text inviting me to switch to another contract. They followed it up (they have to legally) and that was one tick against that company -- a few more ticks and fines could start, so I did my job as a good citizen -- did not ignore scammy business practice ignorance of which allows scumbags run "businesses".

Have you been drinking AND smoking AtW?

A number of points here AtW:

as you say f*** your business. It already is f*****
Yes I lied, as I do every day.. perhaps you could come along and teach me the art of honesty

And as I have explained how easy it is to get around the law, the question I ask is what does that say about the competence of those who dreamt it up?

By the way do you ever break the speed limit?

[AtW]

as you say f*** your business. It already is f*****
Yes I lied, as I do every day.. perhaps you could come along and teach me the art of honesty

Only if you pay for lunch and beer in a smoke-free pub

I think you are smart enough to make money in business field that is not agency -- its real shame you waste your talent on something that is so parasitic.

the question I ask is what does that say about the competence of those who dreamt it up?

Its good law -- watered down as its still allowed to spam other businesses.

The law was created because businesses could not restrain themselves and really pissed off people with making money by pissing people off. We don't like cold calls and if its ruins somebody's business then this business should go to hell. Try to create business that actually creates something people QUEUE FOR instead of trying to push crap down their throats.

By the way do you ever break the speed limit?

Why does it bother you? If did then it clearly did not affect nobody - if my driving was dangerous then I would have been done for it and it would be quiet right: if you smoke hash in privacy of your house and don't affect nobody then I think its fair enough, but if you piss people off with cold calls and lies then this DOES affect people and thus legislation is fair and necessary.