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Reference Blagging

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    Reference Blagging

    Let me ask all you contractors who get so hot under the collar about agents blagging for references how you would feel if such practice was banned? (forget the practicalities of it). Rather than go to one agent you know well, who is well connected and a bit ruthless about getting you a job, just think of the number of agents there would need to be to cover every snippett, every opportunity that existed on the market.

    At the moment there are a number (few) effective agents who dedicate their time to finding out every bit of information going in whatever area of the market that they work in. they do this by spending all their time meeting and talking to clients and contractors alike. They supplement their information by going to the best written source of information going.. the CV, and sometimes (or all of the time if they are at CP) they will cynically engage people for information. I am afraid that this is the way of the world, and this is how people become successful in our industry.

    Now imagine that agents were prohibited from coercing information in this way. There would be many many more of us all armed with only tiny (relatively) bits of information, none of us would have a really good knowledge of the market. You lot would have to talk to many more agents.

    Where I think CP and the other agencies who use CV references as a central part of their strategey to obtain business is that they are missing the point somewhat. They do not realise that such a brazen and clumsy tactic will piss off most contractors by making them feel used. This will be counter productive. Such a tactic should be used as part of a networking strategy and the agents should be made to learn the art of obtaining such information without the contractor knowing (or at least being offended by) that the information has been extracted from them.

    The moral of the story is: dont give out information unless you feel rewarded for doing so.
    Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

    #2
    Not sure I agree with you on this one DA.

    Surely, if agents didn't farm contractors for contacts then it would come down to, essentially, the same sales game other markets play, i.e. relationship building with the customer. In fact, the best agents I know are those who build solid relationships with their customers so that they end up in a better position as the customer always comes to them first.

    As far as market knowledge is concerned, how does this increase by getting a name off a contractor then calling him? That's not market knowledge. Market knowledge is keeping an eye on what companies win deals, working out where the resourcing requirements are likely to be. And market knowledge is also having an appreciation of what the skills the contractors have mean!!

    Just my 2p's worth, IMHO, DYOR etc etc

    Older and ...well, just older!!

    Comment


      #3
      If agents were less brutal about it and didn't abuse referees (spoiling the relationship with former colleagues) then contractors would be more willing to share information.

      Naively, if a client has a resource need, surely they contact a couple of agencies and let them know?

      Comment


        #4
        I would say that if as a contractor I benefit from it then it is a good thing but I'm not going to know when that happens. An agent is not likely to state that the role they are submitting you for was scammed from another contractor. However what you tend to see is the opposite effect. The agent scams a lead and effectively increasees competition for a particular role. When I first started out in the game, I freely told agents who I was up with and where until I sussed out what they were doing. Now I refuse to give over this type of information. Why should I give an agent a lead for a role which I am already up for and reduce my own chances of landing it?
        Rule Number 1 - Assuming that you have a valid contract in place always try to get your poo onto your timesheet, provided that the timesheet is valid for your current contract and covers the period of time that you are billing for.

        I preferred version 1!

        Comment


          #5
          What was the question again ?
          I don't know my arse from an hole in the ground

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Clownio
            What was the question again ?

            Did you find your pen?

            Comment


              #7
              Yes thanks - it was in my drawer all along.

              How stupid did I feel ?

              Thanks for your concern though.
              I don't know my arse from an hole in the ground

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by ratewhore
                Not sure I agree with you on this one DA.

                Surely, if agents didn't farm contractors for contacts then it would come down to, essentially, the same sales game other markets play, i.e. relationship building with the customer. In fact, the best agents I know are those who build solid relationships with their customers so that they end up in a better position as the customer always comes to them first.

                As far as market knowledge is concerned, how does this increase by getting a name off a contractor then calling him? That's not market knowledge. Market knowledge is keeping an eye on what companies win deals, working out where the resourcing requirements are likely to be. And market knowledge is also having an appreciation of what the skills the contractors have mean!!

                Just my 2p's worth, IMHO, DYOR etc etc


                I do agree with you, however as an agent you need to know not only what is happening but who the key people are. It is no use building relationships with people who are never going to give you business. You need to know who to engage.

                This is how sales works:

                To be effective you need to know who is hiring at any one time. I have blagged references in the past, not as a general trawling exercise but to pinpoint certain precise information. If I wanted to get into a client, and I could not find the decision maker through normal channels I would look up CVs of people who had already/presently/previously worked there. I would then call the manager on the reference, or I would call the contractor and use my scintillating charm to extract the information from him/them.

                If I am selling an individual I would go to my database and find out which companies operated in similar technical/business arenas as the contractor. To find decision makers I would either chase the reference or call another contractor who had worked there in the past.

                The point of this is that I am calling people all day, and it may be that the CV that I am as you say "farming" becomes a starting point for talking to the client. The key is to get the client to talk to you. Quite often I would pick up requirements for people with other skills.... "Yes he sounds interesting, but that is not the skill I am looking for" to which I would say "well what are you looking for?" and "If I can will you?" blah blah.

                So references/CVs are full of useful information. The key is how you extract and use this information.

                These things work both ways. If you are asked to fill a job, you need to know where to find the best people, yes by all means use jobserve, but you should also be talking to people where people with the best skills have worked in the past. Again you need to engage clients and contractors alike, so references can also be used for finding people with skills.. though I admit most agents are too idle to do anything other than stick the jobs on jobserve.
                Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

                Comment


                  #9
                  quite right

                  Originally posted by voron
                  If agents were less brutal about it and didn't abuse referees (spoiling the relationship with former colleagues) then contractors would be more willing to share information.

                  Naively, if a client has a resource need, surely they contact a couple of agencies and let them know?
                  You are quite right voron.

                  As far as getting business is concerned it is a numbers game. Often the hirer cannot find good enough people through their two chosen agencies, or they get someone they like the sound of on the phone (or who they dont like the sound off, but give him the requirement just to shut him up.. thats how I do it ).
                  Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

                  Comment


                    #10
                    CVs are a record of a candidates job history and personal information, they are not given to an agency to use as they see fit. There is the issue of data protection here, and of trust. DA has no notion of the word integrity and as such is one of the countless scammers who pervert the recruitment industry.
                    If he is so confident this is in everyone's interest why the subterfuge, and why not tell us about all of his previous employers when we ring him up. DA is just another shyster on the make - think of him as a Rogue Trader - fixing things that don't need fixing, lying, cheating, scum of the earth. A parasitic leech on the face of employment, an ugly wart on the backside of recruitment.

                    Comment

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