SasGuru was right all along. Apologies

[AtW]

Yes Yes, but when are you going to get laid. It's no good being Brum's oldest virgin you know.

Is this all you can say on this historical matter?

[EternalOptimist]

That's only 3 divisions and they should have been active much earlier - they were located too far from actual action and it took time to reach positions. They should have been located 1 hour max from landing points.



The infantry troops that Axis had were 2nd and 3rd rate, the losses you describe (I take them as true without checking) can be true for single battle but you are missing the point on overall German infantry (and equipment) losses on eastern front: it would be something like 15% to 85%.

At Stalingrad Germans lost the best assault army - 6th, thats around 300k soldier and it happened over fairly short period of time: if battallion strength is assumed at 1k (and it was lower for axis - 500-700 I think), then loss of 300k exceeds your estimate.

My opinion is that Britain and USA played critical role in winning the war, however that was not D-Day operation - by summer 1944 it was clear that Axis were losing very bad, the only reason Stalin insisted on D-Day was because he wanted Allies to lose some of their military capability.

You are just plain wrong. The Germans achieved a concentration in Normandy that they never achieved on the Eastern front or anywhere else. And they got pummelled. They had fifty divisions to deploy against the five allied ones that landed but they didnt get them into position quickly enough. They suffered their biggest single defeat of the war in France.

The allies were right to take the gamble at Arnhem.

FYI these two ss panzer divisions that were refitting at Arnhem (9 and 10 IIRC) had been chewed up in Normandy not Russia.

[sasguru]

Is this all you can say on this historical matter?

Your virginity is a historical matter?

[shaunbhoy]

Your virginity is a historical matter?

And likely to remain so well into the future.

[EternalOptimist]

Your virginity is a historical matter?

I thought you had been asked to bugger off

[sasguru]

I thought you had been asked to bugger off

You asking me to bugger off a thread about me? Don't work like that, capish.

[AtW]

You are just plain wrong. The Germans achieved a concentration in Normandy that they never achieved on the Eastern front or anywhere else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Overlord

Allies: 1,452,000 (by 25 July)[1]
Axis: 380,000 (by 23 July)[3] –

Casualties Allies:

226,386 casualties[nb 2]
[7]
4,101 planes[8]

~4,000 tanks[9]

Axis:

288,875[nb 3] – 450,000 casualties[nb 4]

2,127 planes[10]
~2,200 tanks and assault guns[nb 5]

--------

I don't think it's bad result for Axis considering low grade of defensive units, paralisis of command structures, lack of fuel, no air superiiority etc.

And they got pummelled. They had fifty divisions to deploy against the five allied ones that landed but they didnt get them into position quickly enough. They suffered their biggest single defeat of the war in France.

You are taking the piss here. 50 divisions (most 2nd rate infantry divions deemed not capable of serving in Eastern front) dispersed over Europe against concentrated force of attackers.

The allies were right to take the gamble at Arnhem.

Allies had no clue just how powerful Axis tanks are - the only thing that saved allies from pummeling was air superiority which was achieved in large part because of huge Luftwaffe losses on the Eastern front.

FYI these two ss panzer divisions that were refitting at Arnhem (9 and 10 IIRC) had been chewed up in Normandy not Russia.

Of course they were chewed up - but look at the long list and also check out list of Heavy Tank Batallions - vast majority of them were due to action against Soviet forces.

[shaunbhoy]

FFS!!!!!!

It is PARALYSIS you muppet!!

[AtW]

FFS!!!!!!

It is PARALYSIS you muppet!!

Thank you - that was a very valuable contribution: you should know that since it is your general brain condition, now bog off from this thread where the master historians debate the fate of the world - you don't belong here.

[sasguru]

Thank you - that was a very valuable contribution: you should know that since it is your general brain condition, now bog off from this thread where the master historians debate the fate of the world - you don't belong here.

old virgin and crusty scouser