Prince 2 what a load of XXXX - Contractor UK Bulletin Board

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deckster

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#11

18 April 2009, 13:08

Originally posted by Mich the Tester View Post

That rather defeats the object of Agile.

You mean there's an object to Agile? I thought it was just dreamt up by a load of lazy developers as a way to avoid writing documentation!
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swamp

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#12

18 April 2009, 14:16

Originally posted by deckster View Post

You mean there's an object to Agile? I thought it was just dreamt up by a load of lazy developers as a way to avoid writing documentation!

Give me a clear, well written automated test over a stuffy document any day.

Cats are evil.
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Mich the Tester

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#13

18 April 2009, 14:32

Originally posted by swamp View Post

Give me a clear, well written automated test over a stuffy document any day.

Even better; an expertly conducted exploratory test session.

And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014
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minestrone

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#14

18 April 2009, 20:07

Originally posted by swamp View Post

Give me a clear, well written automated test over a stuffy document any day.

An automated test is only as good as the developer that writes it. If you accept that your code is going to be 50% correct ( and that is why you are asked to write tests ) then what chance will your 50% correct developer be right in developing the tests?

Give me a good tester over a unit test anyday of the week.
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minestrone

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#15

18 April 2009, 20:53

The GF's friend was a lawyer and quite frankly not a very good one, she sorted out child cases for the council, hardly a Petrocelli. When she found out what I earned she went to do a masters in IT and got a gig with an IT firm doing law software. She recently passed a Prince exam and the last time I spoke to her she was demanding a developer to be sacked. Truth be told is that she failed as a lawyer and as a developer, got a prince exam and now is in charge of a bunch of developers.
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Francko

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#16

18 April 2009, 21:02

Originally posted by minestrone View Post

Truth be told is that she failed as a lawyer and as a developer, got a prince exam and now is in charge of a bunch of developers.

Sounds about right within the proverb. Those who can do the job, they work and those who can't work, they manage.

And those who can neither manage nor work, they teach.

I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.
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swamp

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#17

19 April 2009, 09:18

Originally posted by minestrone View Post

An automated test is only as good as the developer that writes it. If you accept that your code is going to be 50% correct ( and that is why you are asked to write tests ) then what chance will your 50% correct developer be right in developing the tests?

Give me a good tester over a unit test anyday of the week.

I'd like to see a tester perform a unit test!

Cats are evil.
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Ardesco

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#18

19 April 2009, 09:25

Originally posted by swamp View Post

I'd like to see a tester perform a unit test!

Never met any white box testers??
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PM-Junkie

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#19

19 April 2009, 09:55

Just goes to show what I have thought for years - developers think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot; testers think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot; support folk think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot and managers think that without them nobody else would be able to lift a finger. It's like a bunch of school kids arguing in a playground.

Is it any wonder IT has such a grim reputation in the business world?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus
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Francko

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#20

19 April 2009, 10:16

Originally posted by PM-Junkie View Post

Just goes to show what I have thought for years - developers think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot; testers think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot; support folk think they are the mutt's nuts and everyone else is an idiot and managers think that without them nobody else would be able to lift a finger. It's like a bunch of school kids arguing in a playground.

Is it any wonder IT has such a grim reputation in the business world?

Not really. I think managers do have the same reputation across most fields. True that there are some good ones but the overall majority gives them a bad name for a good reason. Try asking some NHS doctors what's their opinion about NHS managers as an example...

The reality is that often management is a way of removing unproductive people from the chain in the least painful way.

I've seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and cruel and dark, Rome is the light.
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