Would you ever employ someone that has been in prison?

[ASB]

Speeding will not show up on your criminal record. It is an offence not a crime.

It may well not show up on the record. But it is still a criminal offcence, irrespective of whether it was dealt with by a fixed penalty or not. Where you need to make your own disclosure it should be disclosed (subject to RHA requirements etc). A lot of the new offences are civil and dealt with by fixed penalty, but by no means all. Equally fixed penalty does not imply civil not criminal.

[minestrone]

It may well not show up on the record. But it is still a criminal offcence, irrespective of whether it was dealt with by a fixed penalty or not. Where you need to make your own disclosure it should be disclosed (subject to RHA requirements etc). A lot of the new offences are civil and dealt with by fixed penalty, but by no means all. Equally fixed penalty does not imply civil not criminal.

It is considered an offence and not a crime.

[ASB]

It is considered an offence and not a crime.

No, it's an offence against criminal law. However, I happily concede the distinction is blurred. What is largely regarded as criminal offences are those which are disclosed on a CRB check. i.e. recordable offence - as per the National Police Records regulations.

Whist this may not be gospel:-

http://www.andrewgray.uklinux.net/le...cedures30.html

Of particular note is the following - which I think brings about a lot of the general confusion (which could of course apply to me )

Recordable offences
Mean that you can be fingerprinted and/or a non-intimate DNA sample taken without your consent and without the authorisation of a Superintendent, after being charged (or informed that you are being reported), or after conviction.[note]

Almost all criminal offences are (now) recordable, including Public Order Act 1986 (POA) offences under ss.5, 11–14C (disorderly conduct, and offences relating to processions and assemblies). All imprisonable offences are automatically recordable (which includes POA offences under ss.1–4A, and Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (CJPOA) offences under ss.68–69). ‘Obstruction of the Highway’ is not a recordable offence.[note]

The distinction can be important. e.g declarations for the US Visa waiver program.

[AtW]

It may well not show up on the record. But it is still a criminal offcence, irrespective of whether it was dealt with by a fixed penalty or not.

NO - fixed penalty gives exclusion, if you pay it then it's not criminal offence anywhere, I know that certainly - when I applied for citizenship I had to list any criminal offences which they specifically mentioned as speeding unless it was fixed penalty.

[AtW]

I'm pretty sure it is categorised as an offence, similar to dropping litter, you are not branded a criminal.

I am not sure if dropping litter is criminal offence like speeding actually, I think it's not, however de facto speeding is so common that it's not recorded in proper criminal database presense in which is what gives you "criminal record".

They should have made distinction clearer, say any conviction that gives prison term (even if it's suspended) gives you criminal record, everything else (that only involves fines) doesn't.

[Incognito]

What is the difference between a crime and offence?
For statistical purposes, contraventions of Scottish criminal law are similarly divided into crimes and offences. While the term “crime” is generally used for more serious criminal acts; less serious infringements are termed "offences". The distinction between crimes and offences is made only for working purposes and the “seriousness” of the offence is generally related to the maximum sentence that can be imposed. The Scottish Executive uses a detailed classification of crimes and offences, which contains about 360 codes, to collect criminal statistics (Scottish Executive, April 2002).

It is important to note that crime laws are neither fixed nor permanent, and may be changed by many different social pressures.

http://www.strathclyde.police.uk/crimestats/faq/

You can have a criminal record even if your name and details are held locally on a local police database i.e. a police caution. However, very few resources have access to records like these.

As someone previously indicated, the most important distinction is in whether or not the offence is a recordable offence or non recordable. That dictates whether your details will be held on the PNC or the SCHS and that is the ‘criminal record’ that people seem to be discussing.

[ASB]

NO - fixed penalty gives exclusion, if you pay it then it's not criminal offence anywhere, I know that certainly - when I applied for citizenship I had to list any criminal offences which they specifically mentioned as speeding unless it was fixed penalty.

There is certainly an argument that accepting a fixed penalty means that a criminal offence was not committed - but it's not one I subscribe to...

However, the second part of your statement simply shows that they were not interested in it. Not the fact that is was not a criminal offence. For example specifically on the case of speeding:-

http://www.legalbanter.co.uk/uk-lega...-speeding.html
http://www.legalbanter.co.uk/uk-lega...l-offence.html

[AtW]

There is certainly an argument that accepting a fixed penalty means that a criminal offence was not committed - but it's not one I subscribe to...

Fixed penalty is 100% not the same as being convicted or pleading guilty in courts, they essentially created this system to get money easier out of people.

However, the second part of your statement simply shows that they were not interested in it. Not the fact that is was not a criminal offence. For example specifically on the case of speeding

They were interested in criminal offences specifically, some years ago they updated list and said that if you had speeding conviction (unless it was fixed penalty) then you'd still have to report it, they had to say that because speeding is criminal offence, however getting fixed penalty is the way out of it - perhaps it can be compared with "caution", if you get one even for serious crime it's not a criminal record, though I think they are saving up such info on yet another database.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/anti-so...nalty-notices/

"Penalty notices are not the same as criminal convictions. However, failure to pay your fine may result in higher fines or imprisonment."

Essentially Labour created parallel legal system that allowed them to extort money without high level of proof requires. What's really annoying is that even though speeding is deemed criminal offence you are not treated to "innocent until proven guilty" standard, essentially they force to self confict yourself or go down for not providing information. It's a serious anomaly that this sort of crap can happen here.

[ASB]

It is considered an offence and not a crime.

Fair comment. A judge did once remark that there is no distinction. They are all just offences. There isn't any distinction. If the state machinery (i.e. magistrate judge or similar) is empowered to fine you then a criminal offence has been commited and you are guilty of a crime.

[minestrone]

http://www.strathclyde.police.uk/crimestats/faq/

You can have a criminal record even if your name and details are held locally on a local police database i.e. a police caution. However, very few resources have access to records like these.

As someone previously indicated, the most important distinction is in whether or not the offence is a recordable offence or non recordable. That dictates whether your details will be held on the PNC or the SCHS and that is the ‘criminal record’ that people seem to be discussing.

pile of crap

or

as it was known.