Student Visas

[Sysman]

Forgive my ignorance but why do 10,000 Pakistani's come to the UK to get an education? Their home country can afford nuclear weapons but not schools?

Flip answer - they need scientists and engineers for the nuclear programme.

Serious answer - However much we may slag off the perceived decline in educational standards, proper UK universities still have a good reputation abroad. As denver2k points out, that may be changing with increased competition from other countries.

[GreenerGrass]

so my guess it that MI5/6 would strongly prefer to deal with them rather than home grown terrorists.

Well the government certainly would, as it reduces the focus on their past policies on immigration, the failure of multiculturalism, the appeasement of extremists, and the unpalatable truth of what is happening in these closed off communities in denial. They would much rather sweep it all under the carpet and have a "foreign" threat.

They could maybe double or triple the fees for students of terrorist havens like Pakistan, enough to cover the extra surveillance required on them.
The supposed reasons to let them in (to fund unis) really don't stack up when you total the true cost.

[AtW]

The supposed reasons to let them in (to fund unis) really don't stack up when you total the true cost.

Well, the simple matter of fact is that complete ban on visas for them won't prevent attacks - 7/7 happened without any visas, then you'd have to cancel tourists visas from there too and what you going to do about visas for relatives?

It won't work, so the only way is to try to take some advantages of the situation. The key thing that the West was missing is intelligence among those people - when they come to UK it's perfect chance to recruit them because it's a bit hard to do that in tribal regions of Pakistan and Afganistan.

Whether MI5/6 are doing that or not I don't know but it seems reasonable that they would pay close attention to such things.

[threaded]

It's probably all a load of bollocks anyway.

I fully expect it to drop out of the media with nothing heard again as they release all those arrested on the sly when they find no evidence. At the worst I expect them to just "happen to find" some kiddie porn on the computers of a couple of them to justify the whole operation and prove how bad these people really are......

You saw it here first.

I thought the whole thing was to get the plod off the hook / off the front page about killing that guy at the G20 protest.

Accidentally flashing a super secret briefing to the press outside #10? Yeah as if anyone with half a brain believes that was an accident. So I looked closer at the picture and the document I saw screams 'bollox'. Looks like something meant to be photographed; such a large font and plenty of white space.

[AtW]

Yeah as if anyone with half a brain believes that was an accident.

I don't think that guy who had to resign for it would have done it to save police - I am pretty sure saving his job would have been his top priority: when there is a choice between clever conspiracy and stupidity I'd go for the latter to explain situation...

[GreenerGrass]

Well, the simple matter of fact is that complete ban on visas for them won't prevent attacks - 7/7 happened without any visas, then you'd have to cancel tourists visas from there too and what you going to do about visas for relatives?

The thing is, if there were enough "British Pakistani" sleepers to mount another attack (and I don't doubt that there are some) then maybe the "Pakistani Pakistanis" wouldn't have felt the need to come over here.
It's all about the numbers and risk, the fewer visas issued the less likely an attack will be. I agree it won't remove the risk totally, but it will reduce it and make it easier to keep tabs on the key players. It will ultimately save lives.
Letting absolutely anyone in is not the answer, it's the reason we are in such a mess as it is.

As for visas for tourists and relatives? Just cancel them for countries strongly linked to terrorism until the situation stabilises. Yes, the current citizens will all bleat about having to marry someone who actually lives in this country, but if the government was really serious, like the US, that is what they have to do.
At some point they will be forced to, but it will take another major atrocity to break the resistance of political correctness.
There will be lots of angry bearded men whining and protesting, but less idiots prepared to give a **** what they think - especially considering half of them think (or pretend to) that MI5 was behind 7/7.

And I can't see how the opinions of parents of foreign students has any bearing on what our national security policy should be. It's a pretty one sided relationship as far as I can make out between the two countries here, we're not going to lose out economically if they get huffy.
The ISI have their own agenda anyway, and sharing info with MI5 isn't top of their list.

[AtW]

I agree it won't remove the risk totally, but it will reduce it and make it easier to keep tabs on the key players. It will ultimately save lives.

I think it will increase risk actually because it will be much harder to detect plots - those incomers can help detect sleeper cells too.

They can't cancel student visas completely for Pakistan because children of important people there won't be able to come here and it would make things harder.

[GreenerGrass]

I wonder why there hasn't there been an attack in the USA from "home grown" Islamist terrorists of Asian descent?
There must be millions of Muslims there who have easy access to powerful firearms and explosives etc. Is it because they are actually integrated better in society?

[Gonzo]

I thought the whole thing was to get the plod off the hook / off the front page about killing that guy at the G20 protest.

Accidentally flashing a super secret briefing to the press outside #10? Yeah as if anyone with half a brain believes that was an accident. So I looked closer at the picture and the document I saw screams 'bollox'. Looks like something meant to be photographed; such a large font and plenty of white space.

I think it was a ruse to deliberately blow the operation before there is enough evidence so that there won't be an expensive trial.

They can be quietly (and cheaply) deported instead.

[denver2k]

I think it was a ruse to deliberately blow the operation before there is enough evidence so that there won't be an expensive trial.

They can be quietly (and cheaply) deported instead.

If they are guilty, they must be duly charged with their offences,however, if they are innocent, they must be released and compensated. Anything else will only be injustice.

Anyways, same thing going on the other side.