Is it the fault of NuLabour or socialism?

[Foxy Moron]

Blimey, I go dark for 24 hours and come back to a 12 page thread with socialists and capitalists bashing out their arguments. Made for some interesting reading.

My main input: Socialism is idealistic, has NEVER worked and the developed western world has no place for Labour's idea of Socialism.

.

We don't live under Socialism, we live in a mixed mainly Capitalist economy. Stop reading stupid journalists who still think the iron curtain exists and there's a red under every bed.

[Solidec]

We don't live under Socialism, we live in a mixed mainly Capitalist economy. Stop reading stupid journalists who still think the iron curtain exists and there's a red under every bed.

Where did I say we live under socialism?

I said Labours IDEA of socialism! MASSIVE difference.

[Cyberman]

Do you really believe that?

Whilst I agree that the huge increase in Public Sector non jobs is wrong, I don't for one minute believe that all the people doing these jobs vote in any particular way, either:

a) as a reward to the incumbent government for giving them a job
or
b) because the type of person who does such a non-job is going to naturally be a "Labour" supporter.

Such a suggestion is nonsense IMHO

tim

So you don't think that if the Tories said that they were going to get rid of the non-jobs, then these people would vote Labour. Do turkeys vote for Xmas ?

[Cyberman]

We don't live under Socialism, we live in a mixed mainly Capitalist economy. Stop reading stupid journalists who still think the iron curtain exists and there's a red under every bed.

We would all be better off though if benefits were only given to those in dire need. Our benefits system at the moment encourages:

1) Single mothers through offering free housing etc

2) Immigrants to come here for an easy life and to bring multiple wives

3) Worklessness... remember the ' too fat to work' family

4) dissolving of marriages because non-married parents that pretend to live alone are 10K a year better off if one works.

[Foxy Moron]

Where did I say we live under socialism?

I said Labours IDEA of socialism! MASSIVE difference.

It's their idea of Capitalism. The Tories are only planning to cut a bit of public spending. Anything else is imagined

[Cyberman]

It's their idea of Capitalism. The Tories are only planning to cut a bit of public spending. Anything else is imagined

There will be lots of cuts, whether it is Labour or Tory. We are broke thanks to Blair and Brown.

[Old Greg]

Here is the thing about small state socialism. Most socialists would see state ownership as opposed to private ownership as the lesser of two evils within the context of a capitalist system, as it diminishes the power of capital. However, state ownership is not the same as worker ownership and control, because it depends on the intermediaries of a bureaucracy. This will tend to interfere with liberty.

The desired model of worker ownership will diminish the role of the state.

Anyway, that is where small state socialism is coming from. I offer this as an explanation of the concept, rather than as an attempt at persuasion. I expect we are all too entrenched for that.

As for our expensively semi-literate friend, I will offer a special OG grammar point to anyone who spots his error. If there are no takers, I can explain it on Saturday.

[GreenerGrass]

Greg, some "workers" will always be more equal than others. Look at the Trade Union movement.

It's just substituting one power struggle for another. It would just never work in practise, it is against all the rules of human nature.

[Ruprect]

GG is right OG, its not workable in practice.

[Bagpuss]

Greg, some "workers" will always be more equal than others. Look at the Trade Union movement.

It's just substituting one power struggle for another. It would just never work in practise, it is against all the rules of human nature.

You can see socilaism can never work if you ever attended an "all in holiday". Watch the behaviour when everyone has a level playing field and the hot buffet opens. Do they orderly queue and take their fair share or does it turn into a greedy bun fight where everyone piles their plate like food is in short supply?