Is it the fault of NuLabour or socialism?

[FSM with Cheddar]

I thought this question would open up a hornets nest.

Keep up the arguing

[Ruprect]

If equality of opportunities is what it says then does it matter if those competing for those opportunities are not themselves of equal standing (same education, same upbringing)?

Not sure what point you're making old chap

[DodgyAgent]

Not sure what point you're making old chap

I am not sure either

[Bagpuss]

There was the half way house of direct grant schools (i.e. the parental top up system). If I remember correctly the rest of the fees (or a sizeable chunk thereof) came from central government, rather than the local authority. In the case of my school over a quarter of the pupils were there with scholarships provided by local authorities.

Old Labour scrapped the system in the mid 1970s, the Tories brought it back in the form of the Assisted Places Scheme (sorry, don't know the precise details), an New Labour in turn scrapped that circa 2000.

Both schemes allowed parents who wanted to contribute to do so, without having to be mega-rich.

You don't know you political history very well. In the early/ mid 70s while Education minister, Margaret Thatcher approved more Comprehensives and closed more grammar schools than Shirley Williams ever did.

[DimPrawn]

You don't know you political history very well. In the early/ mid 70s while Education minister, Margaret Thatcher approved more Comprehensives and closed more grammar schools than Shirley Williams ever did.

I blame Thatcher.

[FSM with Cheddar]

I blame Thatcher.

No you don't

[DimPrawn]

No you don't

Okay, I don't.

[Solidec]

Blimey, I go dark for 24 hours and come back to a 12 page thread with socialists and capitalists bashing out their arguments. Made for some interesting reading.

My main input: Socialism is idealistic, has NEVER worked and the developed western world has no place for Labour's idea of Socialism.

I do find it incredulous that Socialism's main output seems to be to take from the largely active, hardworking, entrepreneurial, prudent and valued sector and give to those who believe that the are entitled to state handouts for EVERYTHING.

Civilisation has forever functioned on the premise of just rewards for effort and intelligent application. I am in favour of this.

I was not born rich, my parents came here with no money reserves, worked their asses off and have never taken a penny from the state in the forms of handouts such as JSA or council housing. Whilst they could not afford to send me and my siblings through private education, they still understood the resulting education would be better quality than what the state has to offer. They never felt they had a RIGHT to a fancy house or flashy car, they understood you live within your means and work hard towards your goals.

I may or may not be in a position to afford to send my future children through private education, but if I can, I bloody well will, because I want my children to have the best possible start in life.

This is my main issue with socialism in this country, it is geared towards bringing those that have worked and earned their wealth and success DOWN to the level of those that have not, instead of looking into ways of pushing those that are deprived UP towards a better level.

PEOPLE KNOW BETTER HOW TO SPEND THEIR MONEY THAN THE GOVERNMENT. TOO MUCH OF OUR TAX GETS SPENT ON INITIATIVES DESIGNED TO KEEP POLITICIANS IN POWER.

This is the crux of the problem, your and my taxes are all squandered not for the better of society, but for the better of politicians.

Sooner this changes the better.

Labour's Quangocracy needs to end, sooner the better.

[FSM with Cheddar]

Blimey, I go dark for 24 hours and come back to a 12 page thread with socialists and capitalists bashing out their arguments. Made for some interesting reading.

My main input: Socialism is idealistic, has NEVER worked and the developed western world has no place for Labour's idea of Socialism.

Interesting you say that. I have always considered Communism to be an ideal, that doesn't work in practice, but no Socialism.

Do you really believe Socialism doesn't work? Or just NuLabour's corruption of it?

[tim123]

Absolutely. In any other country creating a huge public sector - by some estimates as many as one in five work in the public sector - would be seen as ballot stuffing.
.

Do you really believe that?

Whilst I agree that the huge increase in Public Sector non jobs is wrong, I don't for one minute believe that all the people doing these jobs vote in any particular way, either:

a) as a reward to the incumbent government for giving them a job
or
b) because the type of person who does such a non-job is going to naturally be a "Labour" supporter.

Such a suggestion is nonsense IMHO

tim