Miners Strike - 25 yrs on

[Cyberman]

I don't think so. The problem was the strike didn't have universal backing from the miners themselves so you couldn't expect the public to be fully behind it in a way that would rock the government. There wasn't even a proper vote on the strike if my memory hasn't deserted me.

Spot on. Secret ballots did not exist, and the unions were against them for their own narrow-minded political reasons.

[Pogle]

I remember seeing my Grandad cry - the only time I ever saw him cry.
He was a retired miner, he worked in the pits for 50 years, he was involved in several collapses and had the last rights twice due to accidents. It was not an easy job.
He was crying at the sight of miner fighting against miner.

[ratewhore]

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7925552.stm

Any memories, stories, opinions ?


I was in the RAF at the time and posted over in Lincoln,

Scampers or Waddo?

[gingerjedi]

... but you cannot rebuild an industry that is constantly under threat of strikes. To rebuild you have to adopt competitive practices and unions do not allow this. This is why manufacturing etc has failed in the UK and will continue to fail.

Honda and Nissan UK both allow unions and they are/were some of the most successful car plants in the western hemisphere, you can’t blame unions for everything, short termism and greed is more of a problem for the British IMO.

[Sysman]

He was crying at the sight of miner fighting against miner.

The argument I heard was that house ownership was an important factor. In previous strikes, the miners lived in Coal Board houses, so when on strike they didn't pay rent and there wasn't much the Coal Board could do about it. By 1984 many miners had mortgages to pay and that made them unwilling to join the strike.

[DaveB]

Timing was also a factor. In the 1972 strike coal stocks at power stations were low and the strike occoured during the winter months. Within 6 weeks power stations were shutting down and the country was on a 3 day week due to lack of electricity.

In the 1984/5 strike the strike started in early spring, coincided with a period of unseasonably warm weather and came at a time when coal stocks were high. As a result there was no knock on effect on the countries ability to generate power, which is what really brought Heaths government down in the 70's.

[Mich the Tester]

Honda and Nissan UK both allow unions and they are/were some of the most successful car plants in the western hemisphere, you can’t blame unions for everything, short termism and greed is more of a problem for the British IMO.

Yep, plus Taylorist management practises in British manufacturing during the 60s which enforced time llimited boring repetitive work, overuse of financial management instruments above qualified technical management skills, top down organisations and confrontational relations between management and unions and so on. All this arguably started in the 1950s and came to a head in the ‘blue collar blues’ of the 70s and early 80s. All the while, Japanese management and Rhineland management with their concentration on low level decision making, equality on the workfloor and the promotion of experienced technical people worked quite successfully in a partnership with unions and became dominant in manufacturing. British unions by the 1970s were too radical and politicized to work successfully with management, but workers had been demoralised by the management practices of the previous two decades and therefore were open to radicalisation. Radicals took charge of the unions and we all know where that led to.

What scares me now is that the same Taylorist division of labour, short termist management and slavish adherence to micro-regulation and procedures is being applied in service organisations, and you’re starting to see the effects of ‘white collar blues’.

Oh well, I’m in danger of turning this into another 15,000 word thesis without getting another PDip for it, so I’ll stop.

[Tensai]

Yep, plus Taylorist management practises in British manufacturing during the 60s which enforced time llimited boring repetitive work, overuse of financial management instruments above qualified technical management skills, top down organisations and confrontational relations between management and unions and so on. All this arguably started in the 1950s and came to a head in the ‘blue collar blues’ of the 70s and early 80s. All the while, Japanese management and Rhineland management with their concentration on low level decision making, equality on the workfloor and the promotion of experienced technical people worked quite successfully in a partnership with unions and became dominant in manufacturing. British unions by the 1970s were too radical and politicized to work successfully with management, but workers had been demoralised by the management practices of the previous two decades and therefore were open to radicalisation. Radicals took charge of the unions and we all know where that led to.

What scares me now is that the same Taylorist division of labour, short termist management and slavish adherence to micro-regulation and procedures is being applied in service organisations, and you’re starting to see the effects of ‘white collar blues’.

Oh well, I’m in danger of turning this into another 15,000 word thesis without getting another PDip for it, so I’ll stop.

I'm in the US this week, and it's interesting to see how many of the big US car manufacturers are still struggling to cope with union practices. I'm not saying whether they are justified or not, but their slightly suicidal intransigence appears puzzling in the "current climate."

[Sysman]

All the while, Japanese management and Rhineland management with their concentration on low level decision making, equality on the workfloor and the promotion of experienced technical people worked quite successfully in a partnership with unions and became dominant in manufacturing.

My first permie job in IT was at a British company that did that sort of stuff. It grew from a 12 million turnover company in the 1970s to a 500 million one 10 years ago. It could be done with the right management attitudes. Every employee wanted shares in the company and the shop floor workers were paid well (I used to run payroll, so know that bit).

[Mich the Tester]

My first permie job in IT was at a British company that did that sort of stuff. It grew from a 12 million turnover company in the 1970s to a 500 million one 10 years ago. It could be done with the right management.

That's right, but unfortunately many companies who succeed this way end up being dominated by short termist hedge fund or private equity shareholders and see all their good work ruined.