Death of Capitalism?

[NetwkSupport]

And in fact, we are all on this forum actively working against a Utopian society in working for more money than we really need at the expense of others.

Whether, as in my case, it means the money that goes to me should be going into the pension funds of the permies that have just been told they are no longer getting final salary pensions or to the policy holders of this insurance company in reduced premiums improving their quality of life.

There should be no socialist on these forums, socialist contractor is an oxymoron.

Now why do I equate Utopia with Socialism, maybe I have problems!

I guess it could be viewed as a form of socailism.

I had an interesting chat with a Chineese man a few years ago whilst in Beijing, he lived in the UK 15 years and went home back to china because in the end he beleived that we only perceive that in this "democracy" we have freedom wheras he felt he had more freedom back in China!

[expat]

Money laundering, demanding money with menaces and murder are not recognised as crimes on the UK? Bring it on, time for a career change.

"Taxation, now there's a racket I'd like to get into"
-- Al Capone

[Mich the Tester]

And in fact, we are all on this forum actively working against a Utopian society in working for more money than we really need at the expense of others.

Whether, as in my case, it means the money that goes to me should be going into the pension funds of the permies that have just been told they are no longer getting final salary pensions or to the policy holders of this insurance company in reduced premiums improving their quality of life.

There should be no socialist on these forums, socialist contractor is an oxymoron.

Now why do I equate Utopia with Socialism, maybe I have problems!

I would certainly not consider myself a socialist, but given that in ICT the main means of production is the skill of the professional, perhaps contractors are people who’ve ‘taken the means of production into their own hands’, albeit in a slightly different way to how Marx suggested that should be done. Perhaps contracting is an example for other trades and professions; instead of subjugating themselves to the corporation, people can free themselves to sell their skills for the best offer while taking responsibility for their own financial future.

[NetwkSupport]

Money laundering, demanding money with menaces and murder are not recognised as crimes on the UK? Bring it on, time for a career change.

The crime of Mafia association is not recognised in the uk

[expat]

I would certainly not consider myself a socialist, but given that in ICT the main means of production is the skill of the professional, perhaps contractors are people who’ve ‘taken the means of production into their own hands’, albeit in a slightly different way to how Marx suggested that should be done. Perhaps contracting is an example for other trades and professions; instead of subjugating themselves to the corporation, people can free themselves to sell their skills for the best offer while taking responsibility for their own financial future.

That is how I see it too. I am not trying to be a business, but I am trying not to be an employee either: I'm a skilled worker working on my own account.

True, some of the people I work for will see me as just an employee; that's their concern. The government may proclaim that too: that's at best because they are blinkered socialists who think that the world divides strictly int emploers and employees; at worst it's because they have made a pig's ear of the tax system and don't want me taking advantage of that.

[NetwkSupport]

That is how I see it too. I am not trying to be a business, but I am trying not to be an employee either: I'm a skilled worker working on my own account.

True, some of the people I work for will see me as just an employee; that's their concern. The government may proclaim that too: that's at best because they are blinkered socialists who think that the world divides strictly int emploers and employees; at worst it's because they have made a pig's ear of the tax system and don't want me taking advantage of that.

I agree, also think that politicians and people in power seem to be able to have no problem using loopholes (tax/expenses, etc) but they are quite happy to close down our little loop holes

[Mich the Tester]

I agree, also think that politicians and people in power seem to be able to have no problem using loopholes (tax/expenses, etc) but they are quite happy to close down our little loop holes

Perhaps politicians and corporations are fighting for survival; maybe it isn’t the ‘Death of Capitalism’ we’re witnessing, but the failure of the corporate, conglomerate model of capitalism. While corporations will be necessary for producing stuff which requires huge capital investment, like cars, aeroplanes and railways, you have to wonder whether huge corporations of 100s of thousands of people ever really can be managed effectively, and whether responsible long term management can be achieved in an environment where shareholders demand short term profits, even at the expense of a business putting money aside for long term investment. The banking collapse seems to me to be a symptom and not a cause of corporate failure; mismanagement is not restricted to banks; look for example at car manufacturers who carried on producing gas guzzlers for short term profit when all the indicators said the future was for smaller more efficient cars, didn’t set aside any reserves for anti-cyclical investment and all the while paid multi gazillion dollar salaries to executives. Perhaps the future’s bright for family businesses, free agents and small cooperatives of professionals who think long-term, set aside reserves and don't just milk the business dry in the good times.

[expat]

I agree, also think that politicians and people in power seem to be able to have no problem using loopholes (tax/expenses, etc) but they are quite happy to close down our little loop holes

I don't really want them.

My complaint about IR35 is not that I want to pay dividends; it is that it is a bad kludge with some bad aspects, of 2 kinds:
1. political, by which I mean aspects that are legitimate for government to bring about, but that I don't like, e.g. no allowance for training.
2. logical, where it is frankly unfair. The risk of paying tax twice over a tax-year boundary is one, and the fact that the point of the whole thing is to force some taxpayers' income into the NIC tax (as a tax, not as an insurance scheme), but not others, is another.

[expat]

Perhaps politicians and corporations are fighting for survival; maybe it isn’t the ‘Death of Capitalism’ we’re witnessing, but the failure of the corporate, conglomerate model of capitalism.
<snip interesting points>
Perhaps the future’s bright for family businesses, free agents and small cooperatives of professionals who think long-term, set aside reserves and don't just milk the business dry in the good times.

Indeed, large-scale corporate capitalism is a relatively recent and local idea. As is the idea that everybody should have an employment.

[ratewhore]

We used to live in a capitalist democracy. The last twelve years has turned it into an almost communist state...