If the Tories had been in power things would probably be worse

[DimPrawn]

Well if that isn't plagarism I don't know what is.

You will be hearing from my solicitor.

I blame Thatcher and C02.

[sasguru]

It depends also on what you mean by "things" . The credit crunch will hurt everyone, globally, but countries will clear the losses eventually and rebuild.

IMO the UK will hit the rebuilding phase saddled with additional massive debts -pensions, state spend, dole, etc. which will grind down any recovery - leading inevitably to a recession lasting a decade or probably more.

These debts have been recklessly inflated throughout the Labour administration.

Again your simplistic analysis does not hold up to examination.

Is Britain's public sector, even under Labour, any much bigger than other major European economies. If so provide some proof.

I agree that personal debt is much higher, but as I say on my original post this is because of lax monetary policy and would not be any different under the Tories. After all in right wing Republican America, it's much the same.

[sasguru]

Does that mean the US should shrug it off since they are less state-oriented - is that your prediction? Or do you predict they will crash and burn as badly as the UK for other reasons?

Good point that the village idiots don't get.

[DimPrawn]

Good point that the village idiots don't get.

The UK will crash and burn far far worse than the US.

As I've said, the UK is months away from complete bankruptcy. Due to Labour debts.

IMF

[PM-Junkie]

If, as is commonly believed, this recession/depression has been caused by

(1) the securitisation of sub-prime mortgages by financial firms combined with
(2) an overly lax monetary policy i.e. too low interest rates

then logically as the Tories traditionally support more deregulation and lower interest rates, we would have been no better under them and arguably worse.

I now await the hard of thinking, reflex, cretinous Tories on this forum, but I would ask them to address the logic of this post rather than behave like chimps prodded in a laboratory.

There is some truth in what you say. However, what I would say is that the labour take on economics will put us in a more perilous position over the coming years, and that is the difference.

It is widely acknowledged that one of the major causes of recessions is inflation, and this is why we have an economic cycle. The fact that we are borrowing so much at this stage will put inevitable strain on our currency, and this means the economy will be at perpetual risk of falling into recession until the balance is restored. Scary stuff.

Tories will typically try to protect those who create wealth, that is one of their core principles. The danger with that is sooner or later they lose popular support, and typically damage those who don't create wealth. Labour will typically try to protect those who don't create wealth, that is their core principle. The danger with that is that they will always run out of money. It could be argued that running out of money at the bottom of the economic cycle is a dangerous position to be in.

But I agree, they are both as bad as each other.

[ratewhore]

Is Britain's public sector, even under Labour, any much bigger than other major European economies. If so provide some proof.

Did you hear Digby Jones on R4 last night? He was saying, based on his 18 months as a Junior Minister, that the Civil Service is twice the size it should be and that there are 30% more ministers under NL than there was under Thatcher.

I think one of the problems with NL is the size of Govt, and actually, I'm with the Libertarians on this one; reduce the task of the govt to offer only what a govt needs to offer the people.

[Mich the Tester]

Does that mean the US should shrug it off since they are less state-oriented - is that your prediction? Or do you predict they will crash and burn as badly as the UK for other reasons?

Is the US really ‘less state oriented’?

Look how many people in the US are employed directly or indirectly by the military; from infantrymen in Iraq right through to aircraft mechanics in US factories and cleaners at Halliburton, millions of Americans are actually dependent on state defense budgets, and therefore the massive fiscal deficit for their jobs.

[DodgyAgent]

If, as is commonly believed, this recession/depression has been caused by

(1) the securitisation of sub-prime mortgages by financial firms combined with
(2) an overly lax monetary policy i.e. too low interest rates

then logically as the Tories traditionally support more deregulation and lower interest rates, we would have been no better under them and arguably worse.

I now await the hard of thinking, reflex, cretinous Tories on this forum, but I would ask them to address the logic of this post rather than behave like chimps prodded in a laboratory.

I can see your point and it is probably correct. However had the Tories been in power they would not have embarked on the Gordon Brown spending binge that will leave a legacy of debt for future generations to pay.

The reality is that it is Labour who have once again screwed up the economy and not the Tories, and once again it will probably be the Tories that will have to clear up the mess again.

[DimPrawn]

I can see your point and it is probably correct. However had the Tories been in power they would not have embarked on the Gordon Brown spending binge that will leave a legacy of debt for future generations to pay.

The reality is that it is Labour who have once again screwed up the economy and not the Tories, and once again it will probably be the Tories that will have to clear up the mess again.

Not if the legions of Labour voters here have their way.

This mess is so big, it's going to be UN food parcels and the IMF that fix this one.

[TimberWolf]

It is widely acknowledged that one of the major causes of recessions is inflation, and this is why we have an economic cycle.

How can you be sure which is cause and which is effect (i.e. recession causes inflation or inflation causes recession)? Perhaps inflation is a consequence, or even a necessary effect, of a recession? A panacea.