"Brown to create 100,000 new jobs"

[Cyberman]

I put the pensions grab in the peanuts in comparison to the real problem category.

Pensions were never going to work long-term IMO. Do you not recall pensions being a big concern decades ago? Optomists assume money invested in a pension today means something of it will exist in the future, as if money is some kind of physical entity that can be stored away. It's not, IMO, it's just numbers and pensions were never going to work for the baby-boomer generation. More pensioners, older pensioners, fewer younger people (and longer in education), more generous pensions... Pensions can't and could never add up for the baby boomers and beyond, something has and will yet have to give towards 2020. I thought this had been widely appreciated decades ago.

Pensions would have had a better chance of succeeding if GB had not removed 5 billion every year since 1997. That is actually well over 100 Billion, taking into account compound growth lost and inflation !!

Fortunately, I already have a private salary linked pension to look forward to, but many people have been denied this luxury by the 'caring and fair' socialists.

[DimPrawn]

Pensions would have had a better chance of succeeding if GB had not removed 5 billion every year since 1997. That is actually well over 100 Billion, taking into account compound growth lost and inflation !!

Fortunately, I already have a private salary linked pension to look forward to, but many people have been denied this luxury by the 'caring and fair' socialists.

WHS. Brown has taken £100,000,000,000 pounds out of the UK's pension pot and wasted it on non-jobs, quangoes and civil servants and MP's expenses.

This is your money stolen.

[Doggy Styles]

Optomists assume money invested in a pension today means something of it will exist in the future, as if money is some kind of physical entity that can be stored away. It's not, IMO, it's just numbers and pensions were never going to work for the baby-boomer generation. More pensioners, older pensioners, fewer younger people (and longer in education), more generous pensions... Pensions can't and could never add up for the baby boomers and beyond, something has and will yet have to give towards 2020. I thought this had been widely appreciated decades ago.

That's unfunded state and public sector pensions. They have a far larger black hole now than they did, but you are right, they have always had one.

However, private and company pension funds were solvent in 1997, which means they had enough money to meet their commitments.

[minestrone]

I have paid in (including tax credit) 29,500 into my pension over about 10 years, it is now worth 24,500.

If I keep on going with my contributions it will mean a pension of 5 grand a year but I will lose my state benefits due to means testing.

Really 35 years of saving will account to bloody nothing.

Thanks Cyclops!!

[Cyberman]

That's unfunded state and public sector pensions. They have a far larger black hole now than they did, but you are right, they have always had one.

However, private and company pension funds were solvent in 1997, which means they had enough money to meet their commitments.

The problem is that anything 'solvent' is immediately seen as a tax target by HMG regardless of long term implications. From having the best private sector pensions and being the envy of the world, we are again a laughing stock.

[DimPrawn]

I have paid in (including tax credit) 29,500 into my pension over about 10 years, it is now worth 24,500.

If I keep on going with my contributions it will mean a pension of 5 grand a year but I will lose my state benefits due to means testing.

Really 35 years of saving will account to bloody nothing.

Thanks Cyclops!!

You could have had a £20M Buy-to-let property portfolio by now, all based on putting down 99p as a deposit and borrowing the rest.

[TimberWolf]

However, private and company pension funds were solvent in 1997, which means they had enough money to meet their commitments.

IMO it doesn't make any difference whether private pensions are (or were) solvent today - and goodness knows how someone calculated that they could meet commitments. Neither private nor public pension pots are like mountains of lard built up that can be drawn on later isolated from the economics of the day - those pensions will have to be supported by the next generation. And if the next generation can't afford to support them, they will collapse. I think that is what will happen for both private and public sector pensions.

[Bagpuss]

You could have had a £20M Buy-to-let property portfolio by now, all based on putting down 99p as a deposit and borrowing the rest.

Ah yeah I remember that Northern Rock Mortgage, 99p millionaire tracker IIRC

[PM-Junkie]

IMO it doesn't make any difference whether private pensions are (or were) solvent today - and goodness knows how someone calculated that they could meet commitments. Neither private nor public pension pots are like mountains of lard built up that can be drawn on later isolated from the economics of the day - those pensions will have to be supported by the next generation. And if the next generation can't afford to support them, they will collapse. I think that is what will happen for both private and public sector pensions.

Sorry, but you clearly haven't a clue how private sector pensions work, or the differences between private sector pensions and public sector pension.

Private sector pension models are governed by actuaries, and pensions actuaries were actually doing a great job until 1997 - evidence the fact that private sector pensions funds were MASSIVELY in surplus at the time, even after the variuous recessions we'd been through. Private pensions were a very well run institution, and were the envy of the world. Fact.

Unfortunately the snot-goblin didn't understand how the pensions cycle worked and saw this surplus as his. The resulting £5 billion a year raid did far more damage than just steeling money out of the funds - it impacted confidence. How on earth does he expect actuaries to run an accurate risk model, which is crucial to the resilience of private sector pension funds, when you have the risk of a government coming in and steeling funds??

The collapse of private sector pensions has little to do with demographic changes. I guess you just see it as a huge coincidence that prior to 1997 private sector pensions were healthy and that they only started to collapse post-1997...and that it had nothing to do with the raid on pensions funds in 1997.

[Cyberman]

IMO it doesn't make any difference whether private pensions are (or were) solvent today - and goodness knows how someone calculated that they could meet commitments. Neither private nor public pension pots are like mountains of lard built up that can be drawn on later isolated from the economics of the day - those pensions will have to be supported by the next generation. And if the next generation can't afford to support them, they will collapse. I think that is what will happen for both private and public sector pensions.

Unfortunately, you show your ignorance of actually how good the private pensions system was before 1997. My father has a great private pension and my brother also, but now many others will be denied thanks to GB.