All hands on deck

[Doggy Styles]

cant say i'm over bothered i expected to get flamed for my opinion..

and yes i agree with you to some extent about the cost of the war, NHS IT etc, etc....BUT every other western country is pretty screwed as well arent they? and surely the majority of all those economies somehow based on the US financial and economic systems, surely thats not GB or labour or even the UK's "fault"?

i just want to say i am not trying to stir up an argument here, just to voice my opinions and here some of yours too

I echo mich mich mich

The government ran a deficit in the good times, which is a fundamental no-no because it leaves you with nothing to handle the bad.

Also, the government stopped the Bank of England supervising the banks. This left them free to allow the public to run up enormous personal debts.

We created a classic pyramid credit culture.

[Doggy Styles]

The vast majorty aren't supposed to go to university.

There is some truth in that.

[ThomasSoerensen]

How is it possible? Labour bankrupt the country not once, but TWICE in 30 years and people still vote for them. How fooking thick are these people?

You have just explained the beauty of democracy. Haha.

[AtW]

You have just explained the beauty of democracy. Haha.

The beauty of democracy is that when yet another Govt fks up country economically you can vote them out and vote in someone else, in non-democratic countries same fk ups happen only Govts there remain in power and use opression tools to ensure they don't lose it.

I take local situation any day - Brown is an incompetent scumtulip, however he does not kill his opponents (like Putin) and does not take over businesses that support opposition (like Putin), he does not close newspapers that print nasty stuff about him (like Putin), so UK will get out of this one and maybe learn from it, where as countries like Russia might get screwed for a long time now, yet again.

[Cyberman]

Nonsense.

I went to Skool during Thatcher's era, the buildings were dilapidated, it was overcrowded and a vast majority never went on to university.

Education spending has risen by 60% under Labour, I’m not saying it’s all been successful but to say they want to dumb down the masses is ridiculous.

The quality of education is based on what you learn, not what facilities you have and some of the poorest countries such as China have good education systems and probably better than ours.
Unfortunately people such as yourself and New Lie will never understand this. To them, spending is the answer to everything with total disregard to whether it is necessary or can be afforded.

[Cyberman]

I echo mich mich mich

The government ran a deficit in the good times, which is a fundamental no-no because it leaves you with nothing to handle the bad.

Also, the government stopped the Bank of England supervising the banks. This left them free to allow the public to run up enormous personal debts.

We created a classic pyramid credit culture.

... and while people in previous years were saying to me that Gordon Brown had reduced national debt and was the greatest chancellor of all time, I was saying just wait until we hit a recession. How right I was !!!

[PM-Junkie]

cant say i'm over bothered i expected to get flamed for my opinion..

and yes i agree with you to some extent about the cost of the war, NHS IT etc, etc....BUT every other western country is pretty screwed as well arent they? and surely the majority of all those economies somehow based on the US financial and economic systems, surely thats not GB or labour or even the UK's "fault"?

i just want to say i am not trying to stir up an argument here, just to voice my opinions and here some of yours too

The fact that you expected to be flamed says it all. What really saddens me is that there are so many people in this country who believe government propaganda without question (and that is governments of whatever colour), and who have such a low understanding of economics.

I'll try to make this really simple for you. To use a small personal finances metaphor, where we are now is like having maxed out our credit cards and loans, then unexpectedly taking a big pay cut. We'd be screwed. Borrowing more would cost more because we are such a risk, and our reputation would be toilet when people found out just how clueless we are.

People are rightly complaining that Brown shouldn't have maxed out the credit cards & loans when the money was rolling in....and the reason for the pay cut is therefore irrelevant. Had he not, we could have borrowed on our credit cards & loans until our pay had gone up again. The fact that he hasn't means we'll have to borrow even more, and have to pay off that additional borrowing before we get back even to where we are now. Oh and he most certainly has maxed out on borrowing becuase he doctors the figures. In the same way that he changed the way inflation is calculated, he chooses to discount public sector pensions and PFI liabilities from the balance sheet. Without those our borrowing is 45% rising to 53% of GDP like he claims, with them it is more like 103% of GDP - and that dwarfs just about everyone. That, despite your denials, is 100% full square down to Brown's policies.

Of course, someone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that the smart move is to take the pain now, tighten our belts, stop paying out for unnecessary things (ID cards to name but one....there are hundreds of other examples), and ride out the current storm rather than borrow more and make it worse.

Dunno why I am bothering though - someone who still thinks labour are the heroes clearly has his eyes shut or his head up his backside, or both.

And no, I am not convinced the tories have the answer either. The only guy I have seen talk any sense is Vince Cable, and it shows how carp our political system is that all he is allowed to do is talk and debate. Everyone acknowledges that Doc Cable is the brightest guy in parliament when it comes to finances & economics, but just because he is in the wrong party, that ability doesn't get used. Daft.

Anyway, enough ranting. I'm off to get drunk.

[BrilloPad]

The fact that you expected to be flamed says it all. What really saddens me is that there are so many people in this country who believe government propaganda without question (and that is governments of whatever colour), and who have such a low understanding of economics.

I'll try to make this really simple for you. To use a small personal finances metaphor, where we are now is like having maxed out our credit cards and loans, then unexpectedly taking a big pay cut. We'd be screwed. Borrowing more would cost more because we are such a risk, and our reputation would be toilet when people found out just how clueless we are.

People are rightly complaining that Brown shouldn't have maxed out the credit cards & loans when the money was rolling in....and the reason for the pay cut is therefore irrelevant. Had he not, we could have borrowed on our credit cards & loans until our pay had gone up again. The fact that he hasn't means we'll have to borrow even more, and have to pay off that additional borrowing before we get back even to where we are now. Oh and he most certainly has maxed out on borrowing becuase he doctors the figures. In the same way that he changed the way inflation is calculated, he chooses to discount public sector pensions and PFI liabilities from the balance sheet. Without those our borrowing is 45% rising to 53% of GDP like he claims, with them it is more like 103% of GDP - and that dwarfs just about everyone. That, despite your denials, is 100% full square down to Brown's policies.

Of course, someone with an ounce of intelligence would realise that the smart move is to take the pain now, tighten our belts, stop paying out for unnecessary things (ID cards to name but one....there are hundreds of other examples), and ride out the current storm rather than borrow more and make it worse.

Dunno why I am bothering though - someone who still thinks labour are the heroes clearly has his eyes shut or his head up his backside, or both.

And no, I am not convinced the tories have the answer either. The only guy I have seen talk any sense is Vince Cable, and it shows how carp our political system is that all he is allowed to do is talk and debate. Everyone acknowledges that Doc Cable is the brightest guy in parliament when it comes to finances & economics, but just because he is in the wrong party, that ability doesn't get used. Daft.

Anyway, enough ranting. I'm off to get drunk.

Who can you mean?

[MrMark]

How is it possible? Labour bankrupt the country not once, but TWICE in 30 years and people still vote for them. How fooking thick are these people?

If you knew just a little of British history in the 70s, you'd realise that a certain Anthony Barber destroyed the UK economy. His boom led to inflation hitting 26% in the mid 70s. The Labour government of the time actually did well to bring inflation back down to 10% by 79 (although it's a mute point as to whether we should thank Denis Healy or the IMF; perhaps a bit of both). A totally different situation to 97 when NuLab had a good inheritance from Major/Clark

ft piece on Barber Boom

THE BIG IDEA The dash for growth (2)
Anthony Barber: March 21 1972

"This is our purpose: To achieve a rate of growth twice as fast as in the past decade" - Anthony Barber

In 1972, the UK was on the verge of joining the EEC. Anthony Barber, under pressure from Edward Heath, prime minister, introduced a Budget aimed at tapping the opportunities for growth in the common market.

Barber opted for rapid expansion of domestic demand. He raised income tax personal allowances and reduced purchase tax. He also increased government borrowing to provide a monetary stimulus alongside fiscal stimulus. The "Barber boom" took off.

Inflation rose from 7 per cent in 1972 to 24 per cent in 1975, exacerbated by the Opec oil shock. Government borrowing exploded. Barber was forced to introduce deflationary measures in December 1973, and the Conservatives ended up losing the election of February 1974.

[minestrone]

But Brown is the best guy to take us through this..

from 2002

Chancellor Gordon Brown has confirmed that planned big increases in spending can be made without missing the financial targets on government debt.

"The state of our public finances is strong," Mr Brown said as he presented his plans to the House of Commons.

"In a time of global instability, our task is to remain vigilant, with the strength to take the right decisions for Britain."

fanny talking in a bbc link


Yes, right you are you fud nut