Britain will come out of this recession before Euroland...

[AtW]

Well show us by picking through Roger Bootle's argument. Take some of his points and show us logically why he is wrong or what the alternative view is. Simple really.

I am not convinced it makes sense - I think your views of euros (keep pound) are based on things that have nothing to do with economics and you just look for economical arguements that support your point in order to justify it.

You are a bit like hardcore Labour or Conservative supporter - there is zero point to expend resources trying to convince you, what one needs to do (if this arguement is to be won on referendum) is to focus on normal people whose opinion can actually be changed.

I don't have much time now (need to check big client contract) to address Roger Bootle's stuff in detail, but will say this - he effectively starts the article implying low pound rate is good to lock in euro but then he correctly says that right now Europe won't like pound joining - he is right about it, the best joining time was before not right now - it is much harder to do it now and may not be possible in the next few years. The fault for this is on people like you who argued against euro 10 years ago (I have to say that at the time I did not have a good opinion on it - I was too young).

The only material thing in keeping currency is setting of rates. In my view it's something that is best NOT to be run by Govt. In fact they pretended that's the case by making BoE "independent". So that's good then? In practice they can lean on it heavily as they did in the last few months, so much that BoE rates no longer matter in my view - having rates taken away to ECB would actually implement independence of rate setting from any specific Govt and it's a good thing - if Govts feck up I want them to be brought down (to jail preferably), not trying to play with rates to inflate asset bubbles that will create problems in the future.

Here is what he says near end:

Grim though things will be here, eventually they will get better. Out of the debacle of the ERM exit, came a period of genuinely successful UK economic management and good economic performance.

Last 10 years of "success" were in my view based on speculation based on debt - can you truly say a guy who gets credit card with large spending limit suddenly becomes a successful person? Probably not, certainly not if that person spends up to the credit limit on tat rather than invests it.

I have credit card that I never use, I have zero debts - that's the only reason why I could spend so much time on SKA. If more people were like me in this country it would not be in such a mess now.

[AtW]

That'll keep him quiet for a few hours

[Doggy Styles]

I am not convinced it makes sense - I think your views of euros (keep pound) are based on things that have nothing to do with economics and you just look for economical arguements that support your point in order to justify it.

Don't you see the blindingly obvious contradiction in your statement here?

[AtW]

Don't you see the blindingly obvious contradiction in your statement here?

There is no contradiction, even though I may not have phrased it well.

What I meant is that Dodgy's motivation in my view is to look for any arguement that can help him justify his views, where as my views are formed on the basis of arguements.

[EternalOptimist]

Don't you see the blindingly obvious contradiction in your statement here?

Its not contradictory, he is just questioning the motivation and the justifications

[DodgyAgent]

I
I have credit card that I never use, I have zero debts - that's the only reason why I could spend so much time on SKA. If more people were like me in this country it would not be in such a mess now.

You have just confirmed my point which is that you see and judge everyone through the narrow prism of your own sad futile and miserable existence.

[AtW]

You have just confirmed my point which is that you see and judge everyone through the narrow prism of your own sad futile and miserable existence.

So, in your view if I was loaded with morgage on overpriced house, had lots of credit card debts, was still paying off car loan then it would make me lead "not sad, fulfilling great life"?

I certainly don't like to be in debt and consider the only one worth taking is morgage (if the price of the house is right in the first place). In all other cases if you can't afford to buy it then you save money and buy it when you can afford it.

This is certainly not the view of current Britain, but I believe it was something like this well before I came here. So, I actually think I am more British in this respect than you mate. Now fook off and get some contractors new contracts, pick up that phone and start making those cold calls

[DodgyAgent]

There is no contradiction, even though I may not have phrased it well.

What I meant is that Dodgy's motivation in my view is to look for any arguement that can help him justify his views, where as my views are formed on the basis of arguements.

Nope,

My business trades in four European currencies and using the Euro (or Sterling) only would considerably reduce my costs. If you had read some of my previous posts you will see that I have little time with the "little Englander" view of the Euro (which is to keep out the foreigners and protect British jobs and businesses)

[AtW]

My business trades in four European currencies and using the Euro (or Sterling) only would considerably reduce my costs.

So your businesses would benefit from euro as single currency, yet you are being against it... kind of proves the point I made above

[DodgyAgent]

So, in your view if I was loaded with morgage on overpriced house, had lots of credit card debts, was still paying off car loan then it would make me lead "not sad, fulfilling great life"?

I certainly don't like to be in debt and consider the only one worth taking is morgage (if the price of the house is right in the first place). In all other cases if you can't afford to buy it then you save money and buy it when you can afford it.

This is certainly not the view of current Britain, but I believe it was something like this well before I came here. So, I actually think I am more British in this respect than you mate. Now fook off and get some contractors new contracts, pick up that phone and start making those cold calls

I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that not everyone is a sad single loner living in a bedsit. I am saying that most people aspire to taking on the responsibility of a family, a relationship with someone, buying a home and maybe starting a proper business that employs people. The availability of money to borrow means that people can achieve what they want. It also means that if people are borrowing money then there are people who can save and earn interest by investing.