Manchester - No to congestion charge

[PAH]

The exact timing depends on when the Galileo satellite system is up and running.

Your vote will not be required, thank you.

I'm guessing they'll need us to put some sort of gps tracking device in our cars though, at our own expense, so they know how much to charge based on where we go.

Yeah, sounds like a right vote winner.

[tim123]

It's a while since I've been to Manchester, however I'm chuffed with the vote.

All the other major cities were waiting with baited breath to follow.

I live 5 miles from Newcastle City Centre and it's nigh on impossible for me to get public transport into town, or of an evening out of town. It takes me 20 minutes to drive in, would take me 90 on three busses to get to where I have to be. That's not even taking into account costs, I have no idea what the relative costs are.

If I want to go into the Toon for a drink, it's a £12 taxi ride each way. My mates from Sunderland pay £2 return on the Metro despite travelling twice as far.

Given that IME Newcastle has excellent bus coverage you must live in a god damn inconvenient place not to be able to use it.

This hardly seems like a fair comparison

tim

[Beefy198]

I'm guessing they'll need us to put some sort of gps tracking device in our cars though, at our own expense, so they know how much to charge based on where we go.

Yeah, sounds like a right vote winner.

Surely that's what fuel duty does anyway? You pay more as you travel.

Imagine the black market in people disconnecting your GPS system.

[PAH]

Surely that's what fuel duty does anyway? You pay more as you travel.

True, but they can't ramp that up significantly more due to oil price increases, and the whole monopoly of OPEC restricting supply to keep prices high whenever it suits them.

Imagine the black market in people disconnecting your GPS system.

I'd like to see them try to connect one in the first place!

I predict a boom in bangers and classic cars if the manufacturers are forced to build them into new ones. The bailouts that the car makers are looking for could be all the ammo the govermin need to force their ideals on them.

[Sysman]

I'm guessing they'll need us to put some sort of gps tracking device in our cars though, at our own expense, so they know how much to charge based on where we go.

• Number plate recognition systems are already in force.
• How many are already willingly paying for the "privilege" of a GPS system for their cars?
• How many of you have mobile phones with GPS already included? Probably more than you think.

[BrilloPad]

• Number plate recognition systems are already in force.
• How many are already willingly paying for the "privilege" of a GPS system for their cars?
• How many of you have mobile phones with GPS already included? Probably more than you think.

The annoying thing is that those who pay no car tax will probably get away with no GPS tracker either. The police only care about hassling the middle classes. When they are not shooting them in the back of the head.

[TykeMerc]

Isn't there quite a large difference between GPS navigation and GPS location/tracking systems? The obvious one being that navigation is passive and simply triangulates the position from satellites it "sees" where as tracking is active and would be triangulated by the satellites.

There's no apparent way that a mobile GPS receiver be it in car, portable or mobile phone based could be tracked for a road pricing scheme.

Quite apart from the speed and traffic cameras that we all know, there are other much smaller numberplate recognition devices available, there would have to be a massive programme of installing these to make a scheme viable the best way being in stages with cities having congestion schemes then adding arterial roads.

As people have already said it will be interesting to see if vehicles will be required to have trackers fitted in years to come, no doubt they will be fitted to all new cars after a certain date.
I would guess that to encourage the retro-fitting of trackers to older cars a punitive rate of VED hikes with reduction if a tracker is fitted would be implemented.

[OwlHoot]

There's no apparent way that a mobile GPS receiver be it in car, portable or mobile phone based could be tracked for a road pricing scheme. ..

Surely all you need is something in effect like a mobile phone with GPS, which every few seconds sents a packet with GPS coordinates encoded.

I mean don't mobile phones work much like that now, broadcasting their current IMEI so the correct base station(s) can be located when they are called?

[TykeMerc]

Surely all you need is something in effect like a mobile phone with GPS, which every few seconds sents a packet with GPS coordinates encoded.

I mean don't mobile phones work much like that now, broadcasting their current IMEI so the correct base station(s) can be located when they are called?

Yes, but their cell location system is very, very low power and nothing to do with GPS, in areas with very few overlapping cells the location it yields is limited to it being in an area as large as the cell. In a city with loads of cells the position can be located accurately by triangulation GPS has nothing to do with cellphone technology, it's a bolt on by some phone manufacturers.

I've got a GPS receiver that's less than half the size of my PDA and it certainly doesn't broadcast anything apart from Bluetooth with which it communicates with my PDA for TomTom. In a GPS mobile phone the receiver is simply built into the phone as is the navigation software, again it doesn't broadcast a specific locator signal.

A signal that can be reliably received by multiple satellites would have to be broadcast at much higher levels than the 400mW of a class C mobile device and would use a boatload of battery power as well.

[OwlHoot]

Yes, but their cell location system is very, very low power and nothing to do with GPS, in areas with very few overlapping cells the location it yields is limited to it being in an area as large as the cell. In a city with loads of cells the position can be located accurately by triangulation GPS has nothing to do with cellphone technology, it's a bolt on by some phone manufacturers. ..

The base stations wouldn't be doing the work. What I meant is a mobile-phone-like unit that would determine its own GPS location and include this in the packet sent to the base station.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do this already, or have provision for doing so.