Manchester - No to congestion charge

[Bagpuss]

Good result.

Development of decent public transport should not be based on ripping people off.

Exactly where does this stop?

Road tax - sorry not for the roads anymore, we need extra funds
Income tax- roads and public transport? sorry mate!
Council tax - not for local public transport, we have our pensions to pay!


What's next?
Congestion charging - sorry not for public transport anymore, we need extra funds we have a pensions shortfall, erm what guilt trip can we use this time?

[AtW]

Exactly where does this stop?

It depends on a nation. In France it stopped in Bastille.

It should be illegal and treated as fraud if money raised from road users are used for anything else but roads/transport - fuel duty is more than enough to have good public transport and great roads.

[Spacecadet]

I voted no

It doesn't really effect me too much as I avoid driving through Manchester at rush hour and haven't worked in the city center for years.

However, I refuse to be blackmailed into voting yes so that public transport can be improved.

Public transport in Manchester has suffered for years due to lack of investment. The tram system was supposed to be extended a few years ago, then the government pulled the funding.

Bus routes need reworking, not just increasing. Bus travel with Manchester is nearly always radial - that is you have to go into the city center to change to another bus to take you to another part of the city. There is still no real integration with the rail network. The 2 main railway stations are 5-10 minutes walk from the main bus station. Even though the areas surrounding both train stations have seen a lot of redevelopment recently, no effort was made to combine the trains with the buses.

Having been living in Manchester for 12 years I have not noticed an increase in the number of cars on the roads. Most traffic jams are due to the usual peak hour crush which you get everywhere (including conjestion charging london) and also down to crap traffic management. Lots of junctions have been redesigned and the new lanes/bus lanes/bus priority lights and other new traffic light sequences actually make the traffic worse that it was before.

Recently there has also been a huge gas mains replacement programme, causing even more traffic jams on a few of the main trunk routes into the city, very nice timing!

I also think that the charging zone was far too large and should have been limited to the inner ring road.

[swamp]

These sort of decisions should never go to public vote. It's like offering people the chance to decide if they pay tax or not.

Missed opportunity to join up the gaps and make a very good transport system. Sad day.

I didn't get to vote myself because I live too far out from the centre, though close enough that it takes me less than an hour to cycle in to town when I do go up there. Or about twenty minutes on the train. It makes me wonder who the hell did vote against it. If you were elligible to vote then you were close enough to walk in to town, near enough.

Err, the overwhelming majority of people in Manchester by any chance...?

I like the way the 'Yes' campaign were "disappointed with the voting turnout", which was actually 53%, high for a referendum. I think the 'Yes' campaign wanted a turnout of one, and for that person to vote 'Yes'.

[chef]

I voted no

It doesn't really effect me too much as I avoid driving through Manchester at rush hour and haven't worked in the city center for years.

However, I refuse to be blackmailed into voting yes so that public transport can be improved.

Public transport in Manchester has suffered for years due to lack of investment. The tram system was supposed to be extended a few years ago, then the government pulled the funding.

Bus routes need reworking, not just increasing. Bus travel with Manchester is nearly always radial - that is you have to go into the city center to change to another bus to take you to another part of the city. There is still no real integration with the rail network. The 2 main railway stations are 5-10 minutes walk from the main bus station. Even though the areas surrounding both train stations have seen a lot of redevelopment recently, no effort was made to combine the trains with the buses.

Having been living in Manchester for 12 years I have not noticed an increase in the number of cars on the roads. Most traffic jams are due to the usual peak hour crush which you get everywhere (including conjestion charging london) and also down to crap traffic management. Lots of junctions have been redesigned and the new lanes/bus lanes/bus priority lights and other new traffic light sequences actually make the traffic worse that it was before.

Recently there has also been a huge gas mains replacement programme, causing even more traffic jams on a few of the main trunk routes into the city, very nice timing!

I also think that the charging zone was far too large and should have been limited to the inner ring road.

see DP, that's how you put your viewpoint across without the need for insults using logical argument

[Spacecadet]

yes, i voted Yes as i never travel into the city during peak hours as i never work in the city and the charge was only for weekdays and the public transport network improvements that would have come from funds being raised from the charge meant i'd have a tram stop less than 5mins from my home direct to the airport..

You were supposed to get tram stop several years ago - if you notice all along the route the tram would be taking (old railway lines) the bridges have new railings and a lot of clearing work was done on the line in preparation for the track being laid.

Don't get me wrong - I think that you SHOULD get the tram extension, however I don't like how the public transport has been neglected to the point where it needs so much money that "road charging" is the only way to get the revenue

[Spacecadet]

These sort of decisions should never go to public vote. It's like offering people the chance to decide if they pay tax or not.

Missed opportunity to join up the gaps and make a very good transport system. Sad day.

I didn't get to vote myself because I live too far out from the centre, though close enough that it takes me less than an hour to cycle in to town when I do go up there. Or about twenty minutes on the train. It makes me wonder who the hell did vote against it. If you were elligible to vote then you were close enough to walk in to town, near enough.

the council areas which could vote are shown here:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....ccharge_its_no

A lot of people are too far out of the centre to be able to easily walk or cycle in

[dang65]

Err, the overwhelming majority of people in Manchester by any chance...?

Well, that's what I mean. How many of those people would have been remotely affected by the congestion charge? The reward being offered must surely have far outweighed any penalty those people would have had to pay personally. Most of the income from the congestion charge would have come from people driving in from places further out who didn't even have a vote. Meanwhile, the people actually in Manchester would have seen a reduction in outsiders clogging up the streets and parking places, and would have got a nicely improved transport system which they wouldn't even have been paying for themselves (which seems to have been the main objection to the plan, going by posts on here - that they were being "blackmailed" into paying for their own transport system when someone else should pay for it... well, d'uh, that's what was on offer you plonkers).

[dang65]

the council areas which could vote are shown here:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....ccharge_its_no

A lot of people are too far out of the centre to be able to easily walk or cycle in

OK, "walk" was tongue in cheek, but cycle or train... easy from any of those places on the map. I live south of Stockport and have cycled in to the town centre on many occasions. It takes less than an hour. Or use the train or the tram or the bus, all very regular in rush hour. Crowded, yeah, but so are the roads. If you want the luxury of your own little royal box to sit in on the way to work then shut up and pay for it.

[DimPrawn]

see DP, that's how you put your viewpoint across without the need for insults using logical argument

I haven't got time for logical argument. Especially when dealing with morons who should know better than vote in favour of the government when dealing with transport. Or health, education, crime, immigration for that matter.

Still this place still brings me joy to see the feckless minions without a clue.