People 'can't wait for ID cards'

[Incognito]

I had an ID card when I was in the Armed forces and it did what it was meant to do. Identify me as being someone that was allowed access to a particular place.

Now imagine that particular place as the UK and the ID card as being the identifier that you or the person next to you is allowed here. Of course no card is uncrackable, technology can only make it cost restrictive and inhibitive to fake a card on a regular basis and this can only improve as technology improves, I contend though that it will be harder to crack and clone a card than knock up a dodgy driving licence.

The be all and end all of identity isn't going to be the card anyway; it is the database behind it. You can still fake a card to say you're Gordon Brown, but if you don't match Gordon Brown on the database then you'll be caught eventually. They won't query the database at a bank or post office when you're using the card to get a credit card, but at points of entry and exit to the UK, whilst claiming benefits, assisting police in their inquiries, gaining security clearance, applying for a passport, applying for a driving licence, etc, etc.

[SallyAnne]

Identify me as being someone that was allowed access to a particular place.
<blah blah blah>

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
[/FACT]

[Bob Dalek]

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
[/FACT]

Agreed.

[expat]

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
[/FACT]

Spot-on all points.

[Sysman]

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
[/FACT]

Well said, Sally Anne.

[Paddy]

I had an ID card when I was in the Armed forces and it did what it was meant to do. Identify me as being someone that was allowed access to a particular place.

Now imagine that particular place as the UK and the ID card as being the identifier that you or the person next to you is allowed here. Of course no card is uncrackable, technology can only make it cost restrictive and inhibitive to fake a card on a regular basis and this can only improve as technology improves, I contend though that it will be harder to crack and clone a card than knock up a dodgy driving licence.

The be all and end all of identity isn't going to be the card anyway; it is the database behind it. You can still fake a card to say you're Gordon Brown, but if you don't match Gordon Brown on the database then you'll be caught eventually. They won't query the database at a bank or post office when you're using the card to get a credit card, but at points of entry and exit to the UK, whilst claiming benefits, assisting police in their inquiries, gaining security clearance, applying for a passport, applying for a driving licence, etc, etc.

I had my photo-driving licence stolen by an employee working in a government department who then sold it on. The licence was used to open bank accounts and to commit fraud. Even though the DVLA were aware of the situation and the stolen licence was reported to the police but they never made any proper cross checks when the assailant produced my licence as identity. It was only after the guy was caught red handed in a robbery that they realised he had a stolen licence. Needless to say you can imagine who much havoc and disruption it caused me for three years while my licence was being used.

It is also plain and obvious to anyone who sees me and speaks to me that I am British and that has been the case up until now. I object in having to have to proof that I am a British citizen just so the authorities can be PC with Mr Umdingo who has just got his British passport. When I travel to any other country, any foreign looking person (and I do not mean colour) is picked on and checked out, why does the UK have to be different?

[Incognito]

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
As I said, the database is where you maintain your integrity

(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
We don't have a current form of I.D. we have a driving licence and a passport that are used as forms of identification. The ID card may be circumvented by a wrong 'un, but that'll only happen once due to the biometric data. When you're on it, you're on it.

(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
A database does not lose data, human error causes data loss.

(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
I have no problem with that

(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
Is that straight from the horse's mouth is it? Considering that 'writing the database' as you put it hasn't been tendered yet. Although Thales SA did win the tender to create the protoype register, but why let fact get in the way of your fantasy.

(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
Yes, an identity card will restrict your movements, only allow you to buy a red car, limit you to 1 child per household and automatically notify the council that you've put a brown envelope in the plastic recycling container. I'm well aware of your concept of freedom SA in your thread about paedophillia. 'I don't agree with your views' is a bit of an understatement.

HTH

[Peoplesoft bloke]

[FACT]
(a) they'll be fakeable
(b) in order to get one you need the CURRENT I.D. which proves who we are. If this isn't good enough already, how will the new card be?
(c) the database behind it will loose people's data, so it WONT identify correct people (see point (e))
(d) people will HAVE to pay for the pleasure of all this as you MUST have one (and must have the current I.D. in order to get one! )
(e) the database behind it will be written by EDS so it'll take 10 years and £10billion for the privalge of (c) and (d)
(f) We've just had a 2 minutes silence today for, among others, a great many people who gave up their lives so future generations could live in freedom. Freedom. Anyone who is in favour of this system is either too stupid or too ignorant to know what Freedom truly means.
[/FACT]

100% correct and better expressed than I've managed to boot. I would like to buy you a drink/shoes/coffee/whatever.

[EternalOptimist]

g) even if they were cheap, reliable and difficult to forge I still dont want it.
I just dont like being told what to do

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I had an ID card when I was in the Armed forces , etc, etc.

Are you going to answer Moscow Mule's question - the one where you said there would be benefits to society but just ran away when asked what they were?