Ryanair set for £8 flights to US

[YHB]

1. They don't bother borrowing using naked shorting.
2. They sell shares en masse to trigger large stock falls, this is likley to hit margin calls and make drop even larger.
3. They buy back shares to satisfy IOU.

What's the economic sense of that? Does this activity bring in more investment in to IT, pharma, agroculture, car making? No. This is market manipulation that rapes long term investors and businesses, a highly undesireable activity at the time of high volatility.

Just ask yourself, if hedge funds were closed, would that stop investment into new or existing companies? No, hedge funds don't invest, they screw people over using clever financial models, this fooks up too many things now because too many hedge funds appeared - maybe 20 years ago they were not problem due to low impact on market, but now they do have way too high impact and it's all negative.

Whens the last time you worked for a hedge fund? You know nothing. I am sitting alongside some of the most intelligent people you will find, at one of the most prominent HF's in the world.

Wake up! and go to the trouble of researching.

[AtW]

Shorting is guessing which way shares are going to drop and is FINE.

Can you please explain me the economic sense of shorting operations in a way that makes it clear how such activity helps develop new products, services, grow GDP and generally improve life of people? There isn't.

Shares are designed to attract investment that is supposed to be doing just that, buying and selling shares are the operations that make share market exist, however shorting shares is not investment, it's making money from air kind of activity which certainly makes it attractive to speculators however once their actions have detrimental effect on market (as it happened with VW) then such practices should be put to an end.

I mean, ffs, VW is a real company that makes cars - if you think they will have bad profits AND you own shares, fine sell them - or buy them if you think profits will be good, either way is fine. What is not fine is ganging up on them to sell (especially non-existant) shares you don't even own only to buy them back a day later or sometimes few minutes later. This activity has no economic sense - it is a totally negative practice that should and will be outlawed - watch out huge curbs on hedge funds in 2009, I'd be suprised if at least half of them won't close next year.

[AtW]

Whens the last time you worked for a hedge fund?

I have not tried heroin either. Does not mean that my understanding of what would happen to me if I get hooked on it is incorrect.

The fact that they hire smart people is irrelevant - counterfeiters are smart people too but their activity has negative effect on market so it is banned, same with hedge funds.

[YHB]

Can you please explain me the economic sense of shorting operations in a way that makes it clear how such activity helps develop new products, services, grow GDP and generally improve life of people? There isn't.

You know what the best typeof person to talk to is? One who is willing to admit he is wrong. I would.

- Risk and return is a fundemental principle of capitalism. Making money with no risk (ie agents) is slimy, if you take risk and it pays off you have earned it.
- If Northern Rock, Enron and Tyco and many others had not been exposed by short sellers, it would have taken longer for their idiocy/financial scandals wouyld have damaged shareholders, supplier, customer and so on. Thereby I have explained how " economic sense of shorting operations in a way that makes it clear how such activity helps develop new products, services, grow GDP and generally improve life of people?"

Will you now shut up?

"Such noted investors as Seth Klarman and Warren Buffett have said that short sellers help the market."

"Buffett believes that short sellers are useful in uncovering fraudulent accounting and other problems at companies"

let me guess Warren Buffet is less wise than you?

NOW SHUT UP and go and study this in detail.

[AtW]

let me guess Warren Buffet is less wise than you?

Buffet is an investor - he does not short shares. Perhaps he likes shorters as they would force share prices of good companies down so that he could buy them cheaper thus riding the wave, don't know, however case of VW shows how abusive hedge funds really are.

[HairyArsedBloke]

We've tried to explain all this to Atw ad nauseum. It's too much for him to understand.

[YHB]

Buffet is an investor - he does not short shares. Perhaps he likes shorters as they would force share prices of good companies down so that he could buy them cheaper thus riding the wave, don't know, however case of VW shows how abusive hedge funds really are.

I give up, go google the VW situation and you will see HF's did nothing wrong, was nothing to do with what you said ie profits. The price of preference shares Vs normal shares had fallen out of historical alignment..


arghhh forget it. Live in blissful ignorance fool.

[TimberWolf]

FFS. Booked a flight to Germany today with RyanAir. Cost of the return flight: £0.00. Add £46 in taxes and fees. Okay, this is still very cheap. Okay, another £4 if you forget to check-in on-line 14 days before departure. PITA, but okay. Ignore the cost for baggage and insurance, I don't need it. Coup de grace is another £10 charge for paying by Visa debit card FFS. Still a v. cheap flight but these tactics are wearing a bit thin now.

[Board Game Geek]

Still a v. cheap flight but these tactics are wearing a bit thin now.

But you booked it didn't you ?

I'd be inclined to say their tactics worked admirably.

[TimberWolf]

But you booked it didn't you ?

I'd be inclined to say their tactics worked admirably.

Yep, it was still the cheapest flight I could find, especially since the airport (Lubeck) they use is some distance from Hamburg, which was handy in this case.