John Prescott on class

[shaunbhoy]

Among other things, class determines what obstacles will be put in your way, what will be removed from your way, and how likely your personal lottery ticket is to be a winner: they are not all the same.

Of course they are not all the same, they never could be. But being born into a wealthy family need not guarantee success, just as being born in a slum need not lead to a life of deprivation. We can either give up from the off, or adapt. Nobody said life was going to be fair. Class labels are simply subjective distinctions made by people with their own agendas and shoulder chips to service. I judge people on how they conduct themselves on an everyday basis, and more people should do the same if we are ever to remove this divisive blight from our society. If Prescott is not a shining example of what can be achieved despite life having equipped you with a spartan intellectual toolbox then I don't know who is!

[Bagpuss]

It's an interesting thought tho isn't it. The people living on benefits don't feel a moral imperative to work. Is it not this belief in a hierarchy and knowing your place is serving others by working for them what defines the working classes?

Is the guy with a mortgage and a loan for the bmw who turns up to the office each day more working class than a benefit scrounger?

Is the procedure following form filling office worker contributing more to society than a benefit scrounger?

Who is better off? The one with the freedom to mess about all day doing what they please or the one in the office waiting for 5.30 ?

One thing for sure the underclass would appear from this documentary to consider themsleves better than the working class. Those girls in the film view those prepared to work as chavs, and in their minds working class people only exisit in the North, while their "middle class" are a cut above workers. The Labour party assume these people view themselves as poor working class, looking up to those in work enviously, when infact that isn't true at all. What a sad state of affairs!

[expat]

Of course they are not all the same, they never could be. But being born into a wealthy family need not guarantee success, just as being born in a slum need not lead to a life of deprivation. We can either give up from the off, or adapt. Nobody said life was going to be fair. Class labels are simply subjective distinctions made by people with their own agendas and shoulder chips to service. I judge people on how they conduct themselves on an everyday basis, and more people should do the same if we are ever to remove this divisive blight from our society. If Prescott is not a shining example of what can be achieved despite life having equipped you with a spartan intellectual toolbox then I don't know who is!

I'm with you on that. My grandfather (and namesake) is given on his marriage certificate as a miner, but as my dad put it, he didn't stay a miner for long because he didn't like it.
His grandfather (also my namesake) was born in Ireland but came across the Irish Sea to make a better life for his family.
And his father (yes, same name) signed his marriage certificate with an X; but one of his great-great-great-grandchildren scooped the prizes at grammar school and university on a bursary, and another retired as a director of a Fortune 100 company (unfortunately that one wasn't me).

I come from a line of people who believe in mobility and improving yourself by your own efforts. All I'm saying is that there are some who get there without having to put much in, or in some cases without having much to put in.

[DodgyAgent]

. All I'm saying is that there are some who get there without having to put much in, or in some cases without having much to put in.

They are not as numerous as you might think. At least the British class system is not just about money.

I watched Prescott last night. It was interesting that the "girls" did not consider themselves to be chavs and that they looked down on "pikeys". They also thought Prescott was "posh" ()

What really annoyed me was him telling these young lads at Henley how priviliged they were because they had been able to afford a decent education.
One of them tried to challenge his view by saying that it does not say much for the state education system.

What I would have said is that the reason why the private system is so much better than the state system is simply because of consumer choice. Private schools are run primarily for the benefit of those who "consume" their services, whereas state schools are run primarily for the benefit of those who run them and work in them.

he would then argue that there is not enough money to run a state education system as well as the private system to which my reply woould be:

a. If the state had twice the amount of money to spend on each and every pupil as the private sector charges. the state system would still be not much better.

b.That if the state would have enough money as the private sector were it not for the fact that it was having to spend so much money patching up the lives of people who have been disenfranchised by the dreadful state system.

Finally I would have pointed out to him that he enjoys his affluent priviliged lifestyle by championing a system that inherently fails time after time.

[M_B]

I'd agree with that and would say that an additional clear difference between the two systems is the backgrounds (and parenting) the pupils derive from that has an undoubted effect on their eduction.

[expat]

...[see above]...

Much of what you say is true, and I don't mean to say that as though it pains me to admit it. Class and schools are related but distinct; and there is more than the money to the success, or apparent success, of public schools. I was perhaps a little simplistic in implying that.

If I'm not mistaken, grammar schools did not spend much more money per pupil, that wasn't the main reason that they were successful (for many of those who went there, at least). They may have shared with public schools some of the factors for success, such as concerned parents, for example.

[Bagpuss]

I'd agree with that and would say that an additional clear difference between the two systems is the backgrounds (and parenting) the pupils derive from that has an undoubted effect on their eduction.

come again Willis?

Interesting that Prescott was finding things that weren't there. I.e. he expected the chavs to have an affinity with the working class. He expected the upper class bloke to detest him. Neither did either, I thought the upper class bloke seemed like a nice guy, Prescott was determined to hate him, despite him being really nice to JP.

[b0redom]

And in related news:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...s-caravan.html

"In the end, making Missy's wedding dreams come true cost her father - who lives in a caravan and surfaces driveways for a living....."

"Missy and Thomas honeymooned in Turkey before moving into their own £18,000 caravan - a wedding gift from her parents. "

[DodgyAgent]

And in related news:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...s-caravan.html

"In the end, making Missy's wedding dreams come true cost her father - who lives in a caravan and surfaces driveways for a living....."

"Missy and Thomas honeymooned in Turkey before moving into their own £18,000 caravan - a wedding gift from her parents. "

Dont mention the "N" word

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Dont mention the "N" word

At least we know how much their home is worth - good old Daily Mail