Europe on the brink of currency crisis meltdown

[milanbenes]

thatäs right blaster, this thread has a funny title,

the thread is aimed at the euro but it is the gbp which is getting hammered

Milan.

[Bear]

You haven't made him aware of the worst effect of the pound losing value. Squirrels will move away from Uk to countries with a more stable currency.

Nuts!!!

[expat]

As oil prices fall the economic case for Scottish independence will falter - hopefully we will see oil drop below $40 where it belongs, or more around $25-30 which used to be the price range OPEC liked before they got taste of $150 per barrel and ability to buy football clubs, take bribes in exchange for lucrative weapon contracts etc.

I'm not making a big argument with you out of this, but there is more than that.
The easy headline economic case for Scottish independence was of course the oil, and if that goes, it becomes much less likely; and likelihood of Scottish independence was the real point I suppose.

There is a deeper case for economic independence, based on not being merely a provincial branch of England; but that certainly doesn't sell as easily.

I note with respect to David Cameron that when he was asked recently whether an independent Scotland could survive, he said of course it could, it would just do much better in the Union.
I happen to think otherwise, but I appreciate being treated like a grownup on the issue, unlike Labour (gibbering at the thought of losing Scottish MPs in Westminster) who deny that Scotland could survive at all.

As for the 2 "Scottish" banks bailed out, could Scotland have done that? I might ask, would it? and should it?

[AtW]

I don't have a problem with Scotland being independent. These days with visa-less borders in EU it is a moot point anyway, if they think they can manage it better then fair play.

As for the 2 "Scottish" banks bailed out, could Scotland have done that? I might ask, would it? and should it?

I think if Scotland was independent then in this case we'd have situation of Iceland, maybe a bit better maybe a bit worse but about the same thing.

Cons don't mind Scotland being independent because they realise I think that they are unlikely to ever have electroral success there, so if Scotland becomes independent it would hit Labour most and that's why in my view Labour is so opposed to it where as Cons might be privately okay.

It would certainly do damage to the Union, so I think best way forward is devolution of power (not just to Scotland but to other areas of UK that should manage as much as possible themselves), the Union should really focus on common stuff like armed forces, FBI like force to deal with cross-county crime, etc.

[expat]

I don't have a problem with Scotland being independent. These days with visa-less borders in EU it is a moot point anyway, if they think they can manage it better then fair play.



I think if Scotland was independent then in this case we'd have situation of Iceland, maybe a bit better maybe a bit worse but about the same thing.

Cons don't mind Scotland being independent because they realise I think that they are unlikely to ever have electroral success there, so if Scotland becomes independent it would hit Labour most and that's why in my view Labour is so opposed to it where as Cons might be privately okay.

It would certainly do damage to the Union, so I think best way forward is devolution of power (not just to Scotland but to other areas of UK that should manage as much as possible themselves), the Union should really focus on common stuff like armed forces, FBI like force to deal with cross-county crime, etc.

On the face of it you are right that the Westminster Tories would have a free ticket to government if Scotland left and took its Labour MPs with it, but that is to ignore the history behind it: the Tories are the "Conservative and Unionist Party". They can not give up Unionism without giving up something important about what they are. Now, that is possible (Labour did it with Clause 4), but I doubt it would be popular with the party.

Personally I don't think that an independent Scotland would do damage to England, and it is not my wish to do so. I wouldn't presume to claim that it would actually be good for England - that is their business. But certainly those who believe that the Barnett Formula is a way for England to give money to Scotland, should be in favour.

Much about the Union is indeed moot now, within the EU. I could see Scotland joining Schengen, so that a border would be established between Scotland and England not because the Scots wanted it but because the English wanted to remain separate from the rest of Europe. The Euro would also be on the cards, given that the EU would be expected to recognise an independent Scotland as a peripheral country with special difficulties in trading with the rest of the EU: this is one of the present problems, that we are in the EU but Scotland's trade is predominantly with England.

I foresee Scotland and England being close neighbours within the EU, but different: rather like Benelux or Scandinavian countries. Belgium and the Netherlands (and Lux) do some things together, but Belgium shows no sign of wanting to be just a part of the Netherlands again, nor does Norway look like aspiring to rejoin Sweden. They all seem quite happy about that, although I admit that I find it hard to imagine the English accepting secession is as civilised a fashion as the Swedes did.

[Central-Scrutiniser]

From Last Month


Observatory Report UK Politics

Darling also said that the Royal Bank of Scotland survival had been due to the strength of the UK, and the events of the last few weeks had now left the case for Scottish independence "in tatters".

The International Economic crises presents a boon to the Government - to be re-elected they must first crush the challenge from their power bastion in Scotland now challenged by the SNP .

Next - to alienate Tory voters from Cameron by New Labour Leader Brown's repeated statments that the crises originates from America and fear of a novice Torys Government faliure to cope duirng a period of Global Economic Turmoil.


And New Labours re-election is all going to plan From todays Scotsman online


LABOUR delivered an emphatic victory over the SNP in the Glenrothes by-election early this morning, giving a massive fillip to Gordon Brown and his attempts to reassert his party's authority throughout the country.
Lindsay Roy, the Labour candidate, was declared the winner at 12:45am, beating Peter Grant, his SNP rival, by 6,737 votes – a far greater majority than even the Labour Party had expected.

Mr Roy's win gives the first serious indication of a recovery in Labour's political fortunes in Scotland since last year's Holyrood elections.

In his victory speech, Mr Roy credited his achievement to the Prime Minister. He said: "With Gordon Brown, Britain is strong. With Gordon Brown, Labour has won here in Glenrothes and Central Fife."

The result represents a major blow to the SNP. Labour was defending a 10,664 majority in Glenrothes but, because of the SNP's success in Glasgow East and Labour's deep unpopularity across the UK, the Nationalists had been expected to win this by-election.

[SantaClaus]

Latest shock news: Brown says the banking crisis would never had happened if the whole world had just listened to him all along.

boohahaha,

[ace00]

..............

It would certainly do damage to the Union, so I think best way forward is devolution of power (not just to Scotland but to other areas of UK that should manage as much as possible themselves), the Union should really focus on common stuff like armed forces, FBI like force to deal with cross-county crime, etc.

I like this idea. Make the UK a federation with devolved power etc. Basically, copy America. And also devolve NHS to regional authority with inter-region competition allowed.