assassinated by Scotland yard

[WageSlave]

Blair isn't remotely interested in tackling the root of terrorism in this country, as that's far too much of a politically hot potato. Instead he prefers to undermine centuries of libertarian tradition and turn us into a quasi police state.

[threaded]

Matt: So are you saying you think it is wrong? Why?

[mattgreen]

We'll have to wait and see the outcome of the inquiry first.

Then we should all learn from any lessons that may teach us.

[BobTheCrate]

My grief with you original assumptions AtW was your acceptance that terrorist events should allow the Police to act with complete impugnity.

I never said that

Yes I know you never said that - but that was the premise upon which your opinions were based.

Having said that I formed an opinion in advance of that investigation based on information available in public press.

You did a tad worse than that. You accepted in totality the explanation given by the Police despite aspects (known at the time) that should have given rise to reserving judgment. Instead you arbitrarily (and viciously) condemned Menezes in the same way the Police did.

[AtW]

Yes I know you never said that - but that was the premise upon which your opinions were based.

No it was not -- my opinion was based on publicly available information about Menezes's actions. This information now appears incorrect which is why I change my opinion. Had I formed my opinion based on premise that the police can shoot anybody then new information would not have made a difference.

You accepted in totality the explanation given by the Police despite aspects (even at the time) that should have given rise to reserving judgment. Instead you arbitrarily (and viciously) condemned Menezes in the same way the Police did.

Based on information available at the time. Of course I could say to wait for a few months until investigation is over, but that would not be discussion of the current event.

I prefer to form opinion based on what's available at the time, with unwritten and unspoken obvious caveat that if this information is false then my opinion changes accordingly.

[Not So Wise]

Which is worse: the occasional person being killed by accident or larger numbers of people being killed deliberately?

"Accident" is one thing
Incompetence is another

This whole case has strong smell of incompetence, bad training and poor decision making from the get go and has only got worse as it went along.

What does remain to be seen yet though is who, what, why and where is primarly responsible in the end, was it the survelliance team? The shooters? Or those in charge? And that we will not know till we know the details of the communications between the various parties. Mainly what were the armed officers told? And what did the survelliance team tell those in charge? And how did the first survelliance officers (the one who was taking a leak) comment of "someone should a closer look as i missed him" result in a death?

And also some serious questions need to asked about what happened after the shooting, why the delay to the independant investigation? And where are the missing cctv tapes? And why where platform cctv camera's "not working"? (this last one is highly suspicious to me coming after the two bombings, there would have been an effort to make sure every camara was working on the network, pretty big coincidence that those particular ones were not)

And never lose sight of the basic fact, whatever went on it resulted in the death of an innocent man at the hands of very police who should have been protecting him, if they can cock things up this badly then there definitely should not be a shoot to kill policy, hell i would question should these officers be allowed out with guns at all, till their training and organisation can be adjusted so such monumental cockup's cannot occure.

We would not stand for incompetence with our doctors and we should not stand for it with armed police who can be litterly accuser, judge, jury and executioners on the streets

[threaded]

Well, like I said, accident in terms of cars crashing. Is that not also an example of incompetence...

Do we really need to know all this information? Giving out such information publically will also enable the terrorists to commit their crimes.

[Lucifer Box]

Lesson Learned from the Enquiry

we should not stand for it with armed police who can be litterly accuser, judge, jury and executioners on the streets

Unfortunately, in the current climate the way we are going we will end up with local community support officers looking like this...



Still, that might please WageSlave.

[threaded]

I like the idea of that.

Cheaper than running the legal system with all its attendant hangers on: lawyers, barristers etc. etc.

[BobTheCrate]

Based on information available at the time.

Now you're repeating the Police Commissioner's carefully chosen but not necessarily genuine words.

I prefer to form opinion based on what's available at the time...

As I already said - you did a tad worse than that.