Panorama tonight

[RichardCranium]

no real justification! you seem to have forgotten about the jets they rammed into the WTC

I think you'll find that those who rammed their jets into the WTC are dead.

Also, the WTC was in the USA, not over here.

It was not any specific nation's government that carried out that act. So why are we are war with Iraq & Afghanistan (and Iran soon, too)?

Some rich Americans died so our squaddies have to die and thousands of Iraqi civilians have to die. Not in my name they don't.

Now if this was about Tibet or Taiwan or East Timor or half of Africa, I'd feel differently. But it's not. It's about American big business and the oil industry.

[Troll]

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.

British troops in Helmand: What are they doing there?

Kipling's uncompromising lines are a reminder of the repeated folly of British interventions in Afghanistan, made grimly topical by the deaths of 100 soldiers now recorded in this latest conflict. Why do we never learn the lessons of history?

The First Anglo-Afghan War (1838-42) ended with a British column 16,000 strong retreating from Kabul to Gandamak through the snow; there was one survivor. The Second Afghan War (1878-81) featured the massacre of our entire garrison in = Kabul and eventual withdrawal. The Third Afghan War (1919) ended in de facto independence for the Afghans. Nor were we the only rash adventurers: the Soviet Union, in the decade 1979-89, lost 469,685 men in its incursion into Afghanistan.

So, why are we back in this killing ground yet again? The courage of our troops is universally acknowledged, but why are their lives being squandered? Britain’s only interest in Afghanistan is in the destruction of the heroin trade. The Taliban ruthlessly ended it; then we removed them, since when there have been bumper poppy crops. We claim we are exporting democracy, but that is not our legitimate role and few Afghans are interested.

We are also exporting “our values”, which is what devout Muslims fear more than anything else. They do not want their daughters turned into tattooed, pierced, foul-mouthed, drunken ladettes. British taxpayers have been supporting a delegation of feminist busybodies, in Kabul to raise local women’s “consciousness”: a surer way of provoking jihad could not be imagined.

The Taliban are “on the back foot” – again. Even if they are, their worst-case scenario is to retreat over the Pakistani border and regroup in Waziristan where they are the de facto government. From there they will resume the offensive when practicable. They have all the time in the world. When the International Security Assistance Force eventually and inevitably withdraws from Afghanistan, they will return and exterminate whatever ramshackle regime is left behind in Kabul.

This is madness: the epitome of the narcissist aimlessness of Blair/Brownpolitik. Our troops, once again, are lions led by donkeys; but in this instance the donkeys are not their now highly professional officers, but the hopelessly inadequate and dishonest politicians who rule Britain and Europe. And this is the system we want to foist on Afghanistan…?

Better?

[Cliphead]

Well said.

[HairyArsedBloke]

Should have just nuked the bastards in the first place.

[Lucy]

When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.


British troops in Helmand: What are they doing there?

Kipling's uncompromising lines are a reminder of the repeated folly of British interventions in Afghanistan, made grimly topical by the deaths of 100 soldiers now recorded in this latest conflict. Why do we never learn the lessons of history?

The First Anglo-Afghan War (1838-42) ended with a British column 16,000 strong retreating from Kabul to Gandamak through the snow; there was one survivor. The Second Afghan War (1878-81) featured the massacre of our entire garrison in = Kabul and eventual withdrawal. The Third Afghan War (1919) ended in de facto independence for the Afghans. Nor were we the only rash adventurers: the Soviet Union, in the decade 1979-89, lost 469,685 men in its incursion into Afghanistan.

So, why are we back in this killing ground yet again? The courage of our troops is universally acknowledged, but why are their lives being squandered? Britain’s only interest in Afghanistan is in the destruction of the heroin trade. The Taliban ruthlessly ended it; then we removed them, since when there have been bumper poppy crops. We claim we are exporting democracy, but that is not our legitimate role and few Afghans are interested.

We are also exporting “our values”, which is what devout Muslims fear more than anything else. They do not want their daughters turned into tattooed, pierced, foul-mouthed, drunken ladettes. British taxpayers have been supporting a delegation of feminist busybodies, in Kabul to raise local women’s “consciousness”: a surer way of provoking jihad could not be imagined.

The Taliban are “on the back foot” – again. Even if they are, their worst-case scenario is to retreat over the Pakistani border and regroup in Waziristan where they are the de facto government. From there they will resume the offensive when practicable. They have all the time in the world. When the International Security Assistance Force eventually and inevitably withdraws from Afghanistan, they will return and exterminate whatever ramshackle regime is left behind in Kabul.

This is madness: the epitome of the narcissist aimlessness of Blair/Brownpolitik. Our troops, once again, are lions led by donkeys; but in this instance the donkeys are not their now highly professional officers, but the hopelessly inadequate and dishonest politicians who rule Britain and Europe. And this is the system we want to foist on Afghanistan…?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/society...l-we-learn.htm

Troll, I take it you aren't Gerald Warner?

[Clippy]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/society...l-we-learn.htm

Troll, I take it you aren't Gerald Warner?

Nah, just a plagiarist.

[snaw]

Nah, just a plagiarist.

Kind of like pretending to be someone you're not, only with words ...

[mrdonuts]

Should have just nuked the bastards in the first place.

imo its not to late!

[Clippy]

Hmm, so I missed this last night but wasn't too concerned as I thought I would catch it on the web via the BBC iPlayer service.

However, they do not seem to be offering this programme as part of that...

[Troll]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/society...l-we-learn.htm

Troll, I take it you aren't Gerald Warner?

Nor am I Kipling & apologies for missing off the quotes