What do you believe?

[Chico]

It isn't. It's only true relative to your numbering system. In base 3 systems, 2 + 2 is 11. Everything is relative, you see.

Trust the first post I see is something that will set me off. We use a base 10 numbering system OK? Everything is not relative!!!!!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr

[SupremeSpod]

Trust the first post I see is something that will set me off. We use a base 10 numbering system OK? Everything is not relative!!!!!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr

There are 10 kinds of people, those that understand Binary and those that don't.

Spod - In "Plagiarism" mode!

[Lucifer Box]

Trust the first post I see is something that will set me off. We use a base 10 numbering system OK? Everything is not relative!!!!!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr

Chico, you are so blind to reality you cannot see that is the very essence of relativity. The Sumerians used a base 60 numbering system (which still lingers on today in our minutes of 60 seconds and hours of 60 minutes), the Mayans used a base 20 numbering system, the proto-Indian Europeans used a base 8 system, the ancient Chinese used a binary system for accounting. So the assertion that 2 + 2 = 4 is a relative statement is true.

I'm sure I do not need to remind you, that as we live in a relative universe, to the observer all things appear to be absolute. It is our (well some of us) ability to think beyond what we can see that is one of our greatest achievements as a species.

[Jabberwocky]

It's not just the base that we need to specify - all you code monkeys out there know we can overload the + operator in C++ - what does + actually mean ? So we need some axioms, a number system. These are all our own inventions which are consistent with the world around us to some degree. The absolute truth and God are one and the same thing, which is why Chico keeps looking (and failing) to find examples in the natural world.

[IR35 Avoider]

but do you accept that there is an absolute truth about how the universe came about which we may or may not know?

No.

What we call reality is a mental construct. The construct is influenced by our physical make-up (eg the structure of our brains, the light frequencies our eyes are able to process) and our experiences. Our experiences include gaining knowledge of a shared model of reality from other people, and most of our most important knowlege is received from this source.

I'm not saying that if I head-butt the wall, the wall and the pain are figments of my imagination. Just that words wall and pain and what they convey to someone else (and what they mean to me when I think about them) are cultural/mental constructs. And their is no way of thinking or talking about them (or anything at all) that gets away from that.

You can say that there's a reality which will still exist when humans no longer do. If you want to call the reality itself "absolute truth" that's OK, but it's fairly pointless since nothing within it can possibly know it. Any description of it must be less than the thing itself, and can therefore be improved, so there is no description which can be called absolute truth.

[Crazyhorse]

An equally detailed explanation of "absolute bulltulip" would be nice.

[Dundeegeorge]

An equally detailed explanation of "absolute bulltulip" would be nice.

How about, "Any religious document or political manifesto".

[Chico]

No.

What we call reality is a mental construct. The construct is influenced by our physical make-up (eg the structure of our brains, the light frequencies our eyes are able to process) and our experiences. Our experiences include gaining knowledge of a shared model of reality from other people, and most of our most important knowlege is received from this source.

I'm not saying that if I head-butt the wall, the wall and the pain are figments of my imagination. Just that words wall and pain and what they convey to someone else (and what they mean to me when I think about them) are cultural/mental constructs. And their is no way of thinking or talking about them (or anything at all) that gets away from that.

You can say that there's a reality which will still exist when humans no longer do. If you want to call the reality itself "absolute truth" that's OK, but it's fairly pointless since nothing within it can possibly know it. Any description of it must be less than the thing itself, and can therefore be improved, so there is no description which can be called absolute truth.

Come again. What a load of nonsense. If a tree fell in the woods and no one was around would it make a noise? Essentially you are saying it would not. The problem that advocates of relativism have is that once you admit that there are absolutes in life than that has to be applied to morality and our origins etc. However you cannot make that concession becaue God forbid that we have moral absolutes and the truth of our origins be revealed. Oh no that would mean your are not the most important things in the universe and how you feel about any given thing is not definitive. Whats the proverb about pride again?

[snaw]

Come again. What a load of nonsense. If a tree fell in the woods and no one was around would it make a noise? Essentially you are saying it would not. The problem that advocates of relativism have is that once you admit that there are absolutes in life than that has to be applied to morality and our origins etc. However you cannot make that concession becaue God forbid that we have moral absolutes and the truth of our origins be revealed. Oh no that would mean your are not the most important things in the universe and how you feel about any given thing is not definitive. Whats the proverb about pride again?

What's your point? More importantly when will you give it a rest?

You're not converting anyone around here and people would accept your faith if you stopped bringing the bloody thing up and left people in peace to believe what they choose without some moral judgement from you.

[sasguru]

..

Come again. What a load of nonsense. If a tree fell in the woods and no one was around would it make a noise? Essentially you are saying it would not. The problem that advocates of relativism have is that once you admit that there are absolutes in life than that has to be applied to morality and our origins etc. However you cannot make that concession becaue God forbid that we have moral absolutes and the truth of our origins be revealed. Oh no that would mean your are not the most important things in the universe and how you feel about any given thing is not definitive. Whats the proverb about pride again?

The ramblings of a confused, ill educated moron. There are so many issues with this paragraph that I don't have the time to argue as I have work to do. However I suggest a basic course in logic and philosophy before you bring your spouting vapourings here.