What do you believe?

[SupremeSpod]

That's exactly what radical Muslims think about the West. But why don't they (and you) stop to think why the West is so powerful compared to them. It's is precisely because the West is more rational and less religious that we have created probably the greatest civilisation in the world. While not all are happy in that civilisation their problems pale compared to the Muslim or Christian zealot.

BTW you don't strike me as being particularly happy, Chico. Your postings often show a barely suppressed rage.

He's a flake, he turned to religion as the last refuge. If he doesn't get a few more converts he'll be out on his ear, he's just not making his targets.

[Lucifer Box]

That's exactly what radical Muslims think about the West. But why don't they (and you) stop to think why the West is so powerful compared to them. It's is precisely because the West is more rational and less religious that we have created probably the greatest civilisation in the world. While not all are happy in that civilisation their problems pale compared to the Muslim or Christian zealot.

Quite. Without the reformation, the west would be where the Middle East is today: locked in a mediaevel mindset but without any outside technical assistance available. Except possibly from China who may very well have gone on to global domination a lot earlier than they will.

[Rebecca Loos]

Bloody foreigners come over here, steal our jobs, don't pay tax and then they feck up our language!

Sorry, Christianity

And I am steling no one's job! Most DBAs round here are incompetent and I am teaching them how to do it!

[BobTheCrate]

To me a lot of the problems we face in life are because we have turned away from God and turned to just about anything else.

I do actually believe there is some truth in that.

I suspect a great deal of the problems western communities suffer, could have a much to do with so many of our young (even the not so young) being brought up in and developing within a framework where they have little or no sense of 'belonging'.

They don't 'belong' to Britain for example because it is deemed unfashionable or unacceptable to have the remotest sense of patriotism. They don't 'belong' to the family because the law and the state now takes ultimate responsibilty for their so called welfare and so called discipline.

There is no code for them to adopt or to use as a benchmark. They feel like intellectual, emotional or cultural nomads that have no meaningful empathy toward the so called society they live amongst. Simply because that society has no meaningful empathy with them inorder for them to emulate.

Legislation and laws are an extremely poor substitute for moral codes.

And so this IMO is how some or many can be seduced into thoroughly unworthy cults who gleefully fill an empty space and give them something to believe in. Because no other sod gives them anything they can believe in ... save bloody football maybe.

[Chico]

Chico you are contradicting yourself here. You say you don't care what I and others believe, but also you say that you will challenge what you call myths and falsehoods.

I think you do care a lot about what others believe, since you add that a lot of problems in today's society arise from us turning away from your God.

I am not challenging your faith, my point is simply that your faith is asking you to convert others. I think that is true of a lot of Christians. In that respect, you are not different from Islamists. You would like every one converted to christianism. Yours is an expansionist religion that will not be completely satisfied until every one believes in it. Again I am not passing judgement (yet), just trying to understand the facts.

Rebecca

As a Christian obviously I would love for everyone to share my faith however I know that is not going happen. Why? Because we all have our God given free will to reject or accept the truth. Eventually we all have to face the consequence of our decision. It always amazes me when I met Christians from other parts of the World say China or South Africa. We were brought up in totally different environments however we are united firstly by our love of God and our desire for fairness, forgiveness, hope, prosperity and freedom for our fellow human beings. It is interesting how people so different could have the same outlook on life. That to me is what heaven will be like, all of God's children be they Asian, African, American or whatever standing hand in hand working together for the benefit of all. On the other while there is good there is also evil and that presents itself in many forms - apathy, cynicism, doubt, hopelessness, despair, division, moral decline and I will always be there to say there is another way. The way of truth, freedom, justice, hope and most important of all love. Others will preach the message of despair I will, as long as God lets me, preach the message of hope.

[IR35 Avoider]

Not an agnostic

The trouble with being an atheist is that one is lowering oneself to chicos level. Like his religion it is impossible to physically prove that you are right.

I was going to reply to this then found "The Lone Gunman" had already given my answer.

I don't say I'm agnostic with regard to tooth fairy, santa claus etc, though I can't prove they don't exist, so why say so about god, who I'm no more likely to come round to believing in?

I think the strongest sensible meaning of the word "proof" is that everyone with any understanding of the issue agrees on a truth - by this definition even a proven truth can later turn out to be wrong. (I concede that in Mathematics current "proofs" are extremely unlikely to be overturned at a later date, but it's the only field where this is so.) I think the idea that one has to be agnostic if one can't prove god doesn't exist is based on the wrong premise, that there are knowable absolute "truths" out there which can be proved.

In life all we can do is assess facts by how well they fit in with everything else we know, and if we believe them at all, it is with some sort of subjectively assigned associated probability that reflects how well they fit. (Hope this makes sense - posting in a hurry.)

[SupremeSpod]

Stab, stab, stab, stabbity stab stab!

Spod - In "Just warming up" mode!

[Rebecca Loos]

Chico, I know what you mean and your piece was well written but I think there is more to it than just wishing everyone would believe in the same thing. Most Christians are much more proactive than that. But why does it matter what people believe in as long as they live according to values which you more or less agree with?

I think what gets people reacting angrily to preaching is the word "truth". For you, what you believe in is a truth as opposed to a belief. There is a lack of humility here which is very annoying and I believe it distances people from your message because they don't like the way it is being communicated.

I have talks with friends when we discuss what we believe in, and I never say "this is what I believe in and this is the truth", I say "this is what I believe in and I am not sure it's true and I actually have no proof but I believe in it".

We don't live in the Middle Ages any more when poorly educated people would accept religious teachings blindly, and as is. Maybe then it was necessary to use all sorts of images, tales, etc in order to connect people with values, but haven't people changed and shouldn't you guys change with them? For example, the insistence of today's evangelists/priests etc that silly stuff like the immaculate conception is actually true is ridiculous. Why not focus on Christian values rather than unproveable tales and stories that are actually unnecessary for the greater good of humanity? This stuff will always hide the often worthwhile message behind it.

[wobbegong]

We don't live in the Middle Ages any more when poorly educated people would accept religious teachings blindly, and as is.

But the Islamic year is 1426, which might explain a lot.

[Chico]

Ok Rebecca simple question which would require a simple answer - Is truth absolute or not?