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Brown's plan for the cost of petrol

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    #21
    Originally posted by chris79 View Post
    I'd really like to see a breakdown somewhere of how the price of fuel is made up.

    £x.xx wholesale cost
    £x.xx tax
    £x.xx VAT
    £x.xx profit

    £x.xx Total

    Then compare this to other countries.

    Is this information available anywhere?
    I should try the internet

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by TimberWolf View Post
      I won't be going slowly! I'll be going at top speed in my new electric Reva G-Wiz, slowing down those nasty planet destroying petrol guzzling juggernauts. Until my battery runs out that is.
      And how do you recharge the batteries...Do you have a windfarm nearby? I suspect some gas-powered electric plant is recharging your batteries. And what is done with the batteries after 5 years when they are worn out? These things are NOT the long term answer. Only hydrogen or fusion power is IMHO.
      McCoy: "Medical men are trained in logic."
      Spock: "Trained? Judging from you, I would have guessed it was trial and error."

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by lilelvis2000 View Post
        And how do you recharge the batteries...Do you have a windfarm nearby? I suspect some gas-powered electric plant is recharging your batteries. And what is done with the batteries after 5 years when they are worn out? These things are NOT the long term answer. Only hydrogen or fusion power is IMHO.
        Hydrogen is't a primary energy source. Fusion is the stuff of pipe dreams. Nuclear may be an option, but the types of plant and cost effetiveness need to be examined properly by experts, not by EDF or whoever this government will be bribed by to do it badly. We need a new government to make decisions like nuclear IMO.

        Comment


          #24
          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../29/do2902.xml

          Even by the low standards of his Government, Gordon Brown's recent pronouncements on oil have been surprising. Writing in a national newspaper on Wednesday, he argued that the price of a barrel had soared to $135 because of barriers to production that are "technical, financial and political".

          News: Gordon Brown says oil prices will remain high


          Many experts expect non-Opec production to peak by around 2010, due to geological reasons


          There are problems here, sure enough, but the word he left out was "geological", and the omission is crucial. It means he really doesn't understand the profundity of the current crisis, and explains why panicky initiatives are bound to fail.

          Brown and Darling can implore North Sea oil producers to pump harder, they can even finagle the tax regime to raise the incentives, but it will make very little difference. North Sea oil production peaked in 1999 at 2.9 million barrels per day and has now fallen by almost 60 per cent to around 1.2 million. This happened, as in all mature oil producing regions, because of two simple facts of life.

          First, oil is produced from deeply buried, highly pressurised reservoirs. This is great news to start with; the pressure forces the oil up the pipe of its own accord. But as the oil is produced the pressure is relieved, so the oil inevitably comes out more and more slowly as time goes on.

          Second, in any given region, oil companies usually find and exploit the biggest oil fields first. So, as time goes on they are forced to scrabble around for ever smaller deposits. It is principally this combination of geological factors, rather than economics, which caused North Sea production to peak and decline.

          Changing the tax regime will make very little difference to UK output, let alone the global oil balance that determines the price.

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          As for the rest of the world, Mr Brown is even further astray. Last week, he ranted at the "scandal" that Opec controls 40 per cent of the world's oil, as if it were somehow outrageous that our oil should have found its way under their sand. Here again the geology is in control.

          Opec's 12 members produce around 36 million barrels a day, while the rest of the world ("non-OPEC") produces about  50 million barrels a day. But many experts – including ExxonMobil's chief executive Rex Tillerson – expect aggregate non-Opec production to peak by around 2010, for the usual geological reasons.


          With non-Opec production either flat or falling, we are in Opec's hands as never before. Gordon Brown hopes the cartel can be pressured into raising output, but the signs are that they either will not or cannot. In the past, Opec has deliberately restricted its oil production in order to maintain or raise the oil price, with varying degrees of success.

          Today, however, the cartel has almost no spare capacity; they are pumping flat out, just like everybody else. To create any surplus would mean investing billions – and the end result would presumably be a lower oil price.

          This may not seem a strikingly attractive bargain from Opec's point of view. But neither is it to Opec's advantage to let the oil price rip. That would eventually cause a deep global recession, demand would slump and so would their earnings. So it is fundamentally in their interests to invest and expand their production capacity – if they can.

          However, there is good reason to suspect that cartel members have been exaggerating their reserves figures, and that even mighty Saudi Arabia may be running into geological constraints.

          Until recently, Saudi officials were telling anyone who would listen that, in effect, the kingdom had a bottomless well. But last month, oil minister Ali al-Naimi announced that all plans to expand oil production capacity beyond 2009 had been shelved, claiming there would be no demand for the additional oil. This is arguable but highly unlikely, and even the mildly sceptical will suspect the move was not entirely voluntary.

          The International Energy Agency has also expressed doubts. Two Opec members do have the potential to raise output substantially: Nigeria, where production is severely hampered by continuous assaults from rebel groups in the Niger Delta, and Iraq, whose giant, untapped fields are off limits because of daily violence and the failure to agree a new law governing foreign involvement in the oil industry.

          The chances of either of these producers coming good in even the medium term are vanishingly slight. Yet this is the leaky lifeboat to which Mr Brown clings.

          Amid the rising panic, Arctic nations are scrambling for the oil industry's final frontier. But the amount of undiscovered hydrocarbons in the province is estimated to be relatively limited, at 176 billion barrels – theoretically, six years' supply at current consumption. And three quarters of that is predicted to be not oil but gas, which is difficult to produce in such hostile conditions. So the Arctic is unlikely to produce significant amounts of oil any time soon.

          All the signs are that we have reached the foothills of global oil peak – the moment production flattens and then goes into terminal decline. The facts are stark: the amount discovered has been falling for 40 years; for every barrel we find each year, we now guzzle three; output is already falling in over 60 of the world's 98 oil producing countries; and global production has been essentially flat, at just under 86 million barrels a day, since early 2005; serious analysts now forecast $200 per barrel. What is it that Gordon doesn't get?

          Or perhaps he gets it perfectly well. Because the alternative to praying for some improbable boost to the oil supply is to get serious about cutting demand, and no politician, least of all Gordon Brown, is eager to do that.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by zeitghost
            But he did reduce higher rate VAT from 25% to 17.5% (or was it 15%?)...

            And increase the lower rate from 10% to 17.5% (or was it 15%?)...
            Oh FFS Zeity.

            He raised the basic VAT rate from 8% to 15%, and raised the higher rate from 12.5% to 15%.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by zeitghost
              Doomed etc.

              Buy your horse & cart here...

              One careful owner, never raced or rallied.
              What're the "emissions" like?

              Btw, "The Horse is natures most efficient way of converting money into crap!"

              Comment


                #27
                Why not simply burn all the coal and oil and then when the planet warms up too much install solar panals to run the air conditioning units - simple!
                Rule Number 1 - Assuming that you have a valid contract in place always try to get your poo onto your timesheet, provided that the timesheet is valid for your current contract and covers the period of time that you are billing for.

                I preferred version 1!

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by zeitghost
                  Really?

                  It was a long time ago... the higher rate was 25% for a while...
                  Are you sure that wasn't Purchase Tax? just how old are you?

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by expat View Post
                    Are you sure that wasn't Purchase Tax? just how old are you?
                    No he's right, it was VAT. I am 46.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by PerlOfWisdom View Post
                      No it's not - the tax is more than the cost before tax - therefore over 100%
                      That's a very good point, I hadn't spotted that. So if the tax is 66% of the total, then the fuel price is 34% of the total, which means that the tax is 66*100/34, which gives 194%.

                      Is that right? I think my head's going to explode.

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