The sign of things to come

[Chico]

Jesus is dead mate, you can say what you want about him, he ain't gonna mind.

Thats the greatest lie - Jesus lives and if you want proof Spod -ask him.

[hyperD]

No actually the real tragedy is the know-alls who think they have all the answers and that the total sum of their lives is what they feel. I have heard enough testimonies from thousands of people from all walks of life to know that Jesus not only saves but he changes lives and no amount of insults, hyperbole,myths or downright lies will ever change that.

No! The real tragedy is the people who are convinced they are chickens in a Paul McKenna show.

[Chico]

hyper - sorry I missed the point you were trying to make. I recommend that you read the whole of Deuteronomy. Am I supposed to be shocked by that? No what shocks me is thousands of abortions every week, children killing each other, families being torn apart by casual flings etc Pur.....leeeeeaseeeee.

[hattra]

actually the real tragedy is the know-alls who think they have all the answers

and you don't realise that that describes you to a "T"

[hyperD]

hyper - sorry I missed the point you were trying to make. I recommend that you read the whole of Deuteronomy. Am I supposed to be shocked by that? No what shocks me is thousands of abortions every week, children killing each other, families being torn apart by casual flings etc Pur.....leeeeeaseeeee.

Just grabbed a few more from the book:

[QUOTE]22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her,

24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die.

26 Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor,

27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,

29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [c] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.[QUOTE]

I think I'd be more shocked by what I've read than a casual fling. The suffering of thousands of children while those bound by a backwards religious mantra to stay together in an atmosphere of sadness, anger and hate. Great kids from that family....

[Chico]

hyper - I bet you missed this bit or are you just being selective in what you cut and paste from The Bible. You see I unlike you get the whole message. Matthew 5

1And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:


3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Believers Are Salt and Light
13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.


Christ Fulfills the Law
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.


Murder Begins in the Heart
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, "Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, "You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
26Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.


Adultery in the Heart
27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not commit adultery.'
28But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Marriage Is Sacred and Binding
31 "Furthermore it has been said, "Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.


Jesus Forbids Oaths
33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37But let your "Yes' be "Yes,' and your "No,' "No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.


Go the Second Mile
38 "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

[hyperD]

hyper - I bet you missed this bit or are you just being selective in what you cut and paste from The Bible. You see I unlike you get the whole message. Matthew 5

I'll see your Matthew and raise you Corinthians I 3:18-19

If you think that you are wise in this age, you should become fools so that you may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

hyperD in "Canaan hold'em rules" mode

[Chico]

hyper

Lets go back to Deuteronomy - which do you find despicable - the sin or the punishment? I find the sin despicable - imagine a world where is no rape, paedophilia, were marriage is sacred children are brought up in a loving environment with two parents lovingly committed to each other - just imagine what sort of healthy and balanced society we have. If the Israelites wandering in the desert followed these simple commands then there would be no punishment would there? God does not give commands for his benefit but for ours.

Deut 32

1 Listen, O heavens, and I will speak;
hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2 Let my teaching fall like rain
and my words descend like dew,
like showers on new grass,
like abundant rain on tender plants.

3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD.
Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.

5 They have acted corruptly toward him;
to their shame they are no longer his children,
but a warped and crooked generation. [a]

6 Is this the way you repay the LORD,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father, your Creator, [b]
who made you and formed you?

7 Remember the days of old;
consider the generations long past.
Ask your father and he will tell you,
your elders, and they will explain to you.

8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples
according to the number of the sons of Israel. [c]

9 For the LORD's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance.

10 In a desert land he found him,
in a barren and howling waste.
He shielded him and cared for him;
he guarded him as the apple of his eye,

11 like an eagle that stirs up its nest
and hovers over its young,
that spreads its wings to catch them
and carries them on its pinions.

12 The LORD alone led him;
no foreign god was with him.

13 He made him ride on the heights of the land
and fed him with the fruit of the fields.
He nourished him with honey from the rock,
and with oil from the flinty crag,

14 with curds and milk from herd and flock
and with fattened lambs and goats,
with choice rams of Bashan
and the finest kernels of wheat.
You drank the foaming blood of the grape.

15 Jeshurun [d] grew fat and kicked;
filled with food, he became heavy and sleek.
He abandoned the God who made him
and rejected the Rock his Savior.

16 They made him jealous with their foreign gods
and angered him with their detestable idols.

17 They sacrificed to demons, which are not God—
gods they had not known,
gods that recently appeared,
gods your fathers did not fear.

18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.

19 The LORD saw this and rejected them
because he was angered by his sons and daughters.

20 "I will hide my face from them," he said,
"and see what their end will be;
for they are a perverse generation,
children who are unfaithful.

21 They made me jealous by what is no god
and angered me with their worthless idols.
I will make them envious by those who are not a people;
I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding.

22 For a fire has been kindled by my wrath,
one that burns to the realm of death [e] below.
It will devour the earth and its harvests
and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

23 "I will heap calamities upon them
and spend my arrows against them.

24 I will send wasting famine against them,
consuming pestilence and deadly plague;
I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts,
the venom of vipers that glide in the dust.

25 In the street the sword will make them childless;
in their homes terror will reign.
Young men and young women will perish,
infants and gray-haired men.

26 I said I would scatter them
and blot out their memory from mankind,

27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy,
lest the adversary misunderstand
and say, 'Our hand has triumphed;
the LORD has not done all this.' "

28 They are a nation without sense,
there is no discernment in them.

29 If only they were wise and would understand this
and discern what their end will be!

30 How could one man chase a thousand,
or two put ten thousand to flight,
unless their Rock had sold them,
unless the LORD had given them up?

31 For their rock is not like our Rock,
as even our enemies concede.

32 Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom
and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison,
and their clusters with bitterness.

33 Their wine is the venom of serpents,
the deadly poison of cobras.

34 "Have I not kept this in reserve
and sealed it in my vaults?

35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near
and their doom rushes upon them."

36 The LORD will judge his people
and have compassion on his servants
when he sees their strength is gone
and no one is left, slave or free.

37 He will say: "Now where are their gods,
the rock they took refuge in,

38 the gods who ate the fat of their sacrifices
and drank the wine of their drink offerings?
Let them rise up to help you!
Let them give you shelter!

39 "See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.

40 I lift my hand to heaven and declare:
As surely as I live forever,

41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and repay those who hate me.

42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
while my sword devours flesh:
the blood of the slain and the captives,
the heads of the enemy leaders."

43 Rejoice, O nations, with his people, [f] , [g]
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
and make atonement for his land and people

[AtW]

magine a world where is no rape, paedophilia, were marriage is sacred children are brought up in a loving environment with two parents lovingly committed to each other - just imagine what sort of healthy and balanced society we have.

So what's your take on priests molesting boys? And since you seem to love children so much why priests are denied right to shag women?

[Chico]

So what's your take on priests molesting boys? And since you seem to love children so much why priests are denied right to shag women?

Just because its a priest doing the molesting does not make any less evil. They disgust me. On your second point - celibacy is not a biblical requirement for priests. It is man made requirement particularly in the Catholic church.