AtW

[DodgyAgent]

I gave up arguing with this fool a long time ago, and I now prefer to humour him rather than become embroiled in arguing with him. He still trots out the line whenever there is a discussion about terrorism, that these acts are committed by people with a cause who have no means to compete in war with the superpowers of this world... am I right AtW?

So without breaking my vow to not bother engaging him in debate I am going to agree with him because he is actually right. These alleged "terrorists" are targeting civilians (soft targets) because they do not have the weapons or power to engage their enemies in straightforward military confrontations.

My question then to my esteemed friend is: So what? Are you pointing out a simple logistical fact or are you trying to legitimise the actions of these "freedom fighters"? If you are saying that they have a legitimate cause then I would like to invite you to explain their cause rather than imply that they have one.

[AtW]

I am pointing to logical outcome following from cause and effect. This atrocity in the UK is clearly result of UK's decision to join the USA in Iraq. Just like Beslan is result of Putin's policy in Chechnya.

I just had calls from my mother checking how I am -- she said the plague came here just like it came to Moscow and other places. Moscow's underground was bombed more than once now, and there will be no doubt further bombings.

What do I want? I want to have no civilians blown to pieces in London, Moscow, New York, Jerusalem and any other city.

I can't see how Western society can win this one without taking cause out of hands of religious fanatics. These people blow themselves up for a big cause, if you like it allows terrorists to brand themselves as freedom fighters. It was a big mistake to allow this to happen.

This is a vicious circle that UK entered into. A big country like UK can't be seen as caving into demands of terrorists, so in effect it forces country to follow the same path as actually lead to this act of terrorists.

This is exactly what they want -- the terrorists don't win when forces are pulled from Iraq, they win from keeping this war going on and on and on.

Now, Mr DodgyAgent, I'd like you to thread carefully as I would not take lightly suggestions that I somehow enjoy local people blown up as it could not be further from truth. It is your point of view that support actions resulting in death of civilians, not mine. Did not you support war in Iraq? Congratulations -- I hope you sleep well tonight knowing that Saddam is in jail at the expense of dozens of British lives.

[AtW]

If you are saying that they have a legitimate cause then I would like to invite you to explain their cause rather than imply that they have one.

They have facts that are extremely easy to sell as "legitimate cause" to a small number of people who nevertheless can cause mayeh in densely populated society that is not used to this level of violence.

This is why the West should be extremely careful at doing things, that's why invasion of Iraq was a huge mistake that gave Al Quaeda just what it wanted. Bin Laden is no doubt happy now.

All thanks to red necks like yourself who want to assert military superiority of the West over some God forsaken countries.

[threaded]

AtW: You credit terrorists with way too much intelligence. Generally there is one or two in the group with a brain, but they too generally have damaged personalities.

Your average terrorist has a poor upbringing, comes from a broken home, has little education and thought of little else above food, shelter and sex until they fell into the clutches of one of these groups.

The most intelligent gang of terrorists I can think of were the Bader-Meinhoff and most of them came from the The Socialist Patients Collective ...

So do stop being a prat about how these terrorists are upset about something. They might parrot the words but they understand very little of what they say.

[AtW]

Your average terrorist has a poor upbringing, comes from a broken home, has little education and thought of little else above food, shelter and sex until they fell into the clutches of one of these groups.

What a lot of crap. Have you not been reading new research about current crop of terrorists? Many of them have high education, they come from middle to rich class families -- they ain't poor lads from remote village anymore.

So do stop being a prat about how these terrorists are upset about something. They might parrot the words but they understand very little of what they say.

These people are "sold" on simple easy to present things like: UK invaded Iraq, or USA supports Israel that took Palestinian land. These are simple undeniable facts that make the recruitment much easier than it would have been otherwise.

Many of the wanna be terrorists went to Iraq, and they seem to be gaining knowledge of explosives and urban warware. All thanks to stupid decision to invade Iraq in the first place.

[threaded]

AtW: Well, maybe the stuff I read is a little out of date. Yes, a few do come from well to do families, but they had poor upbringings, with absent or violent fathers and wildly permissive mothers etc.

[AtW]

AtW: Well, maybe the stuff I read is a little out of date.

It is. In the last few years there were a few publications that drawn modern terrorist's portrait as being nothing like stereotypical profile.

Knowing honestly, withour propaganda lies, who your enemy is, is the first step to victory.

[threaded]

The enemy is someone who bombs tube trains and buses. They are obviously irrational. What more is there to know?

Guess there is a market for people who come up with pop-psych sound-bites and hey that makes for fun entertainment on the tele.

Anything more than that is just as silly as asking how long a piece of string is.

[AtW]

The enemy is someone who bombs tube trains and buses. They are obviously irrational. What more is there to know?

People don't blow themselves up without a reason. Their likely reason for this atrocity is participation of UK in Iraq war. This is something those who were opposed to that foolish wasteful war warned about.

And what people who supported war say now? Well, one of them - Mr DodgyAgent chooses to attack me instead of revising his own views as to the benefits of war in Iraq.

[threaded]

AtW: People commit suicide for many reasons, but generally they all suffer from low esteem. Suicides generally need a reason: being jilted by a girlfriend, losing their job. Unluckily some of them "get religion" and take a few others with them.