Migrants take all new jobs in Britain

[Clippy]

Interesting how the arguement shifted from immigrants taking public money in form of benefits to taking jobs from working people.

You really have no life if you think thats interesting.

[AtW]

You really have no life if you think thats interesting.

I think this is an interesting change of views. Not sure how this relates to whether I have life or not.

[Troll]

Gordon Brown now says he wants "British jobs for British workers".

Over the past 10 years he worked flat out to ensure that one particular British job would go to one particular Scottish worker, and he has at last succeeded. But in other respects, his recently declared ambition is failing.

The Government Mr Brown now leads has presided over by far the largest immigration in our history.

In 1996, the last full year of Conservative government, the official projection for net immigration was 65,000 a year.

This September, the Office of National Statistics revised its projection from 145,000 a year to 190,000.

Gross immigration since 1997 has been 4.4 million, net immigration 1.6 million.

In May 2004, as Frank Field remembers below, the Government predicted that between 5,000 and 13,000 immigrants from the Eastern European countries newly admitted to the European Union would arrive.

More than 600,000 came. This week, the Government confessed that it was 300,000 out in its figures for foreign workers: 1.1 million have arrived since 1997, not 800,000.

It also admitted that 52 per cent of the new jobs in this period have gone to immigrants and that the number of British citizens in work is falling.

Although the Government has lost control, people should not conclude that it did not intend what has happened.

It does not know the figures because it did not really want to know them: it got rid of the system of counting people in and counting people out and noting the difference between the two. Its only current means of knowing is something called the International Passenger Survey, which is a mere random questionnaire.

As soon as Labour came into office in 1997, in deference to its voters of Indian and Pakistani origin, it relaxed the rules of immigration on grounds of marriage.

It passed the Human Rights Act, which gives immigrants an effective automatic right to welfare benefits and makes it much harder to deport them, even when they are criminal.

Labour then accepted asylum-seekers, self-defined, in unprecedentedly large numbers.

When the outcry against this became too great, the Government hugely increased the annual number of work permits instead. As David Cameron pointed out this week, fewer than 10 per cent of those applying for work permit extensions are refused, and grants of permanent settlement in this country have trebled since 1996.

[sasguru]

Gordon Brown now says he wants "British jobs for British workers".

Over the past 10 years he worked flat out to ensure that one particular British job would go to one particular Scottish worker, and he has at last succeeded. But in other respects, his recently declared ambition is failing.

The Government Mr Brown now leads has presided over by far the largest immigration in our history.

In 1996, the last full year of Conservative government, the official projection for net immigration was 65,000 a year.

This September, the Office of National Statistics revised its projection from 145,000 a year to 190,000.

Gross immigration since 1997 has been 4.4 million, net immigration 1.6 million.

In May 2004, as Frank Field remembers below, the Government predicted that between 5,000 and 13,000 immigrants from the Eastern European countries newly admitted to the European Union would arrive.

More than 600,000 came. This week, the Government confessed that it was 300,000 out in its figures for foreign workers: 1.1 million have arrived since 1997, not 800,000.

It also admitted that 52 per cent of the new jobs in this period have gone to immigrants and that the number of British citizens in work is falling.

Although the Government has lost control, people should not conclude that it did not intend what has happened.

It does not know the figures because it did not really want to know them: it got rid of the system of counting people in and counting people out and noting the difference between the two. Its only current means of knowing is something called the International Passenger Survey, which is a mere random questionnaire.

As soon as Labour came into office in 1997, in deference to its voters of Indian and Pakistani origin, it relaxed the rules of immigration on grounds of marriage.

It passed the Human Rights Act, which gives immigrants an effective automatic right to welfare benefits and makes it much harder to deport them, even when they are criminal.

Labour then accepted asylum-seekers, self-defined, in unprecedentedly large numbers.

When the outcry against this became too great, the Government hugely increased the annual number of work permits instead. As David Cameron pointed out this week, fewer than 10 per cent of those applying for work permit extensions are refused, and grants of permanent settlement in this country have trebled since 1996.

Troll, I don't often agree with you because it seems you have a single issue agenda. But the above is well argued and presents a bunch of facts. It's true that Labour have been duplicitous in the extreme. The problem is that the Labour government is in thrall to the big corps, terrified as they are of appearing "anti-business", and the only people who are benefiting from this are the chairmen of big corps.
On the other hand, companies are responsible to their shareholders and as a chairman I would want as cheap labour as I could get.
I think capitalism is in one of it's dodgy phases right now. The pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Ps I don't think this your work. Where did you cut and paste it from?

[Keldin]

And what happens when you reserve jobs for British workers and no-one turns up?
When you reserve high paying skilled jobs and you have no skilled British workers left?
When you reserve low paying unskilled jobs and the unskilled British workers prefer to queue at the dole office?

K

[NoddY]

Ps I don't think this your work. Where did you cut and paste it from?

I don't think it is either - I think the original was the Telegraph.

Here it is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../03/do0302.xml

[sasguru]

What I despise is finding scapegoats for what is essentially a very British failure. We need to learn some lessons from countries who have been through some tulip before we have to go through it ourselves. And history shows that the host society always blames "the other" to avoid coming to terms with its own failures.

[NoddY]

And what happens when you reserve jobs for British workers and no-one turns up?
When you reserve high paying skilled jobs and you have no skilled British workers left?
When you reserve low paying unskilled jobs and the unskilled British workers prefer to queue at the dole office?

K

Many Poles don't get out of bed for work in Poland because the pay isn't high enough. The pay isn't high enough because of Ukrainians working for next to nothing. So the Poles work in the UK/Ireland to get paid more.

Many Brits don't get out of bed for work in Britain because the pay isn't high enough. The pay isn't high enough because of Poles working for next to nothing. So the Brits ....?

[2uk]

Many Poles don't get out of bed for work in Poland because the pay isn't high enough. The pay isn't high enough because of Ukrainians working for next to nothing. So the Poles work in the UK/Ireland to get paid more.

Many Brits don't get out of bed for work in Britain because the pay isn't high enough. The pay isn't high enough because of Poles working for next to nothing. So the Brits ....?

Ukraine is equal if not better to Poland .

[Troll]

Troll, I don't often agree with you because it seems you have a single issue agenda. But the above is well argued and presents a bunch of facts. It's true that Labour have been duplicitous in the extreme. The problem is that the Labour government is in thrall to the big corps, terrified as they are of appearing "anti-business", and the only people who are benefiting from this are the chairmen of big corps.
On the other hand, companies are responsible to their shareholders and as a chairman I would want as cheap labour as I could get.
I think capitalism is in one of it's dodgy phases right now. The pendulum has swung too far the other way.

Ps I don't think this your work. Where did you cut and paste it from?

t'was the Telegraph...they seemed to articulate the point very well

I have multiple agendas

& it's copy & paste
HTH