State vs Independent Schools

[lukemg]

He's right, it's all about attitude. If you go to sh1te comp and everyone there has low aspirations due to own families and reality, then it is hard not to adopt those aspiations too.
If you go where people think they can achieve very highly in life, the perspective changes for many of those around this attitude.
It's a simplified view and there will always be exceptions but if you look at the figures, it will reflect this overall.
Of course, there are further grades of independant school with different aspirations and backgrounds of pupils. At the top end, these contacts will likely make a huge difference, lower down, you can expect a bright pupil will achieve their potential and think they can achieve well later on, the contacts will likely not be as influential (if at all)
Better exam results, although pleasing, are only a small part of the picture.

[Bagpuss]

I'd class Grammar schools as independent where they can set their own standards and exceed the National Curriculum - not beset by the tos and fros of govt. meddling.

I went to a grammar, followed by an independent.

You've just confused the poll. State or Public school would be a better definition

He's right, it's all about attitude. If you go to sh1te comp and everyone there has low aspirations due to own families and reality, then it is hard not to adopt those aspiations too.

On the flipside of that, if you are surrounded by people who are spoilt, have no idea of the value of money, have never had to work for anything then that can quite often lead to failure too. The system is littered with sons/daughters of self made fathers who will never go on to be a success.

[realityhack]

If one finds oneself having to work after being let into these secrets, then one should consider oneself a complete and utter failure in life.

What utter rubbish - there may well be independent schools where 'having to work' in later life is frowned upon, but you are by no means a failure if you do. If your friends think this is the case - then they aren't friends worth having.

IMHO:
70% of independent schools scrape by, giving the pupils a slight edge.
25% of them offer excellent opportunities to those prepared to study hard and reap the rewards.
I'd say therefore that 95% of these schools instil a strong work ethic.

The 5% that breed besuited barrow boys and upturned nosed cretins would benefit only those with the real connections to back them up - a lot fall by the wayside, disillusioned by the slap in the face that is reality, unable to cope with a day's hard work.

Most of the rest are eventually exposed for the prats they are - usually in the full glare of the media, as politicians, celebrities and loudmouths. It's the quiet ones you should watch out for.

[realityhack]

You've just confused the poll. State or Public school would be a better definition

Grammar, public, private and independent schools are all, largely, independent.
There's a difference between public and private schools.

[DodgyAgent]

Independent schools train the elite on how to own, control and manipulate the means of production. This involves, inter alia, allocating capital, maximising rents and profiting from the surplus value of labour. If one finds oneself having to work after being let into these secrets, then one should consider oneself a complete and utter failure in life. Finishing school is usually one of the older Oxbridge colleges.

State school is for poor people who have to sell their labour. The whole machinery of the organisation is centred around 'getting a good job' and maximising the resale value of their labour to 'good employers'.


So it's a no-brainer really.

Apart from revealing the big and obvious chip by making your point come accross as a rather pathetic whinge you are actually quite right . You may therefore be interested in reading the article by martin Samuel in todays Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2591874.ece

[Bagpuss]

Grammar, public, private and independent schools are all, largely, independent.
There's a difference between public and private schools.

A grammar school is not the same as a public school, the results may be similar, but by the nature of it (Grammar) being state sponsored it is still a state school and those going to public school will always think such.

[Jog On]

Independent schools train the elite on how to own, control and manipulate the means of production. This involves, inter alia, allocating capital, maximising rents and profiting from the surplus value of labour. If one finds oneself having to work after being let into these secrets, then one should consider oneself a complete and utter failure in life. Finishing school is usually one of the older Oxbridge colleges.

State school is for poor people who have to sell their labour. The whole machinery of the organisation is centred around 'getting a good job' and maximising the resale value of their labour to 'good employers'.


So it's a no-brainer really.

I didn't take "how to own, control and manipulate the means of production" or "allocating capital, maximising rents and profiting from the surplus value of labour" at my public school - I'm having to self teach it from books and online training courses.

You're right though working is for numpties

[Bagpuss]

Apart from revealing the big and obvious chip by making your point come accross as a rather pathetic whinge you are actually quite right . You may therefore be interested in reading the article by martin Samuel in todays Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2591874.ece

Absolute b0llocks, I know and have worked with people from expensive public schools, they don't have some magic secret way to control 'the plebs'
This may have been true in the 19th century, but not now, those who think so are imagining it.

[DodgyAgent]

Absolute b0llocks, I know and have worked with people from expensive public schools, they don't have some magic secret way to control 'the plebs'
This may have been true in the 19th century, but not now, those who think so are imagining it.

No they dont, but they are born into a world where they will meet people with influence and power. The children of your indian born grocer on the other hand will have a harder to task to move up the ladder than your average public schoolboy will.

[realityhack]

A grammar school is not the same as a public school, the results may be similar, but by the nature of it (Grammar) being state sponsored it is still a state school and those going to public school will always think such.

You're right, but that's not what I said.

A grammar school is free to cherry-pick the top 10-15% of the most academically gifted in their catchment area through entrance exams - and is free to add more depth to the curriculum as it sees fit, as long as the pupils still cover the same curriculum content as state pupils. Exams are either the same papers as sat by state pupils, or higher papers approved by the examinations boards.

Hence 'largely independent'.

A few grammar schools became independent and started to charge fees - others offer a state subsidy to those with a scholarship.

But I never said they were the same as a public school - and you're right to say grammars are regarded as state by public school pupils.