Project Manager or Developer?

[VectraMan]

I've been a technical lead, which is I think as far as I want to take it. Being a PM is about trading on your past experience rather than your current ability, which is I suppose what you do when you can't be useful any more. I suspect I'll get there at some point.

PMs definitely belong to the B-Ark.

[sli_gryn]

there's this wonderful "semi-place" between tech and responsibility that seems to pay well, it's called a "solutions architect". it's this ethereal space where you get to p*ss off those at each and every end of the spectrum (rubbish designs to the tech leads, b0llock build plans to the pm...). a pretty good gig of "all care no responsibility" if you can find it.

[Francko]

there's this wonderful "semi-place" between tech and responsibility that seems to pay well, it's called a "solutions architect". it's this ethereal space where you get to p*ss off those at each and every end of the spectrum (rubbish designs to the tech leads, b0llock build plans to the pm...). a pretty good gig of "all care no responsibility" if you can find it.

The downside is that it can also turn out into an "all responsibility" if both techies and PMs are not doing their job well and they both come to you when the sh1t hits the fan.

[Peter Loew]

Ah finally somebody honest! You became a project manager because you were not good at your job and could not face the challenge. Don't worry, there are many like you around here (hint: ask sasguru)*.

*However, I do understand that there are a few good PM who have attitude and skills for the role. Unfortunately, this is a small minority. The largest majority of PMs are failed BA or techies with a big ego and no morals so that they are not ashamed of doing a job in a worthless and unfair way (hint: ask sasguru).

p.s. not pointing you out, you might be one of the few good ones. Just using you as a case.

Au contrare, I actually was good at my dev role. I always had top performance reviews and was promoted to team leader quickly (this was in my permie days). What I described is how I personally felt; in reality I used to code quickly to a chosen design strategy and was very efficient most of the time.

I found development to get tedious and boring with the APIs getting fatter and fatter sometimes for no practical reason other than to keep bored framework designers happy.

PM offered new challenges and I found I excelled in it and still am. Plus when I come to manage development projects I can get down and dirty if needed.

Some people naturally drift away from techi roles, others move into techi roles. You're obviously a disgruntled techi, Francko.

[Francko]

Some people naturally drift away from techi roles, others move into techi roles. You're obviously a disgruntled techi, Francko.

Some also stay and further develop and are not disgruntled. I am disgruntled with the people who wants you to move into management positions when they see you are good and experienced. This seems to happen to me everytime I move to a new position. I don't want, I want to keep doing what I like and I feel that there is and there always be a lot to progress in the technical field. Unless you believe that after 5-10 years you have nothing else to learn, in which case I can raise some doubts about what you say. As you pointed out, only keeping your knowledge up to edge is already a constant challenge. I am not against the people who understand that they are naturally inclined towards other positions, I am against the ones who believes management is the only natural progressions or the ones who use management as a conveyor for the failures, who is probably not you but there are many, you can't deny. Besides you only get money once you raise to directors level, and this step is not dependant on skills any longer but purely on political and lack of moral skills. PMs only get the stress of management, not the money (I do understand that some may find it interesting though).

[Peter Loew]

I wonder sometimes what PM would feel like - how is it at release time for you as PM compared to when you were doing dev?

Managing a RADS project at the moment and it was release time this week. As a PM I planned for every possible contingency I could think of, with input from the RADS lead. I get constant updates depending on how complex the release is, and handle any problems as they arise so always have to be on the ball. So long as you have planned for the worst, and the client understands that, then you can't do much else except carry on with your other projects while the release is being done.

I think devs concern themselves as much with releases just as PMs do, as it's their efforts that are going to be scrutinised if things go pair shaped, as well as the PMs efforts.

[Peter Loew]

Some also stay and further develop and are not disgruntled. I am disgruntled with the people who wants you to move into management positions when they see you are good and experienced. This seems to happen to me everytime I move to a new position. I don't want, I want to keep doing what I like and I feel that there is and there always be a lot to progress in the technical field. Unless you believe that after 5-10 years you have nothing else to learn, in which case I can raise some doubts about what you say. As you pointed out, only keeping your knowledge up to edge is already a constant challenge. I am not against the people who understand that they are naturally inclined towards other positions, I am against the ones who believes management is the only natural progressions or the ones who use management as a conveyor for the failures, who is probably not you but there are many, you can't deny. Besides you only get money once you raise to directors level, and this step is not dependant on skills any longer but purely on political and lack of moral skills. PMs only get the stress of management, not the money (I do understand that some may find it interesting though).

I see. Are you not a contractor?

I used to work for Capgemini as a permie (most of my experience has been working for such consultancies), and their career path had options to accommodate people who didn't want to move up the ladder. You would have an option of doing your same role even if you've reached the limit that you could get paid for that role; but the point was nobody would look down on you as to why you are not progressing in your career so it would be perfectly legitimate.

Seems to me contracting or working in a consultancy is where you want to be.

[Francko]

I see. Are you not a contractor?

I used to work for Capgemini as a permie (most of my experience has been working for such consultancies), and their career path had options to accommodate people who didn't want to move up the ladder. You would have an option of doing your same role even if you've reached the limit that you could get paid for that role; but the point was nobody would look down on you as to why you are not progressing in your career so it would be perfectly legitimate.

Seems to me contracting or working in a consultancy is where you want to be.

Well, I do a mix of contracting and permie. I go permie when I have to learn new skills for a few years, then milk it for a few years after and so on. Yes, it's only big consultancies where you can have some respect in these positions. However, the road is still very slow. They are trying, as you said, to value people in the technical progression but still the opportunities are not that many and people who are on the business side gets unfairly most of the credit and bonus opportunities. So you are right, contracting is really the only option (going permie only when you need to refresh your skills).

[sasguru]

Drivel drivel blah blah

Some people just have no talent eh?

[NotAllThere]

I went from ABAPper contractor into permiedom as a team lead, to Head of Development in a multinational, managing a team of technical project managers/team leads in various countries. It was fun. ( Taking the team out, and then calling my boss from the Buddha Bar in Paris at 10pm, getting his agreement to sign off the expenses, was a notable achievement that doesn't appear on my CV... ).

However, the politics eventually got to me, and I went back to contract ABAP development. ( Now OO in BW and SEM). And frankly, I love it. I wish I'd never gone up the management tree. Though having been there, I've got excellent high level contacts that are very useful for keeping me in work.

And I think I'm getting a slightly higher rate than your pm rate. ;-)

NotAllThere