Lovely New Britain

[richard-af]

I don't blame the State - I blame you, me, my dad, his mum, her great uncle (well, maybe not THAT far back!), but WE all stood by and watched while our amazing country went pop.

There's another Thread today about Boris Johnson running for London mayor. Another telling sign that we, as a Nation, couldn't actually care less about who runs things for us. And I'm not having a go, in particular at Boris (though he is a ******); it's the whole celeb-for-PM attitude, that we all seem to endorse, and then, like me, whinge like babies when we see what it leads to.

[Nicky G]

The UK has gone over the edge. Why? Dunno. Is it the destruction of the Left in Politics? Immigration? A natural conclusion to the Post War class barriers breaking down? I have no idea. But then nobody else does, either. But it has happened.

1) The gradual eroding of the Church and spiritual principles in favour of intellectual ideas / relativistic thinking. Destroy Christian values you destroy man's safety net and this leads to all sorts of subsequent problems.

2) Cowardice. In the West the stomach for a fight or will to take tough measures does not exist any more and has only sporadically surfaced after WW2. Don't send kids on safaris when they burgle houses, give them 20 lashes. It worked in the past and it works in Arab countries.

3) Lack of cultural values compared to certain other countries (ironically Russia). Scholarship, 'culturedness', education and intellectualism are only a means to an end in the UK and America. There is no love for higher culture because there’s no profit in it.


Just a few ideas. I also don't think that the problems we face can be put squarely on the shoulders of New Lie as much as I’d like to be partisan. The rot set in long before that. I’d trace it back to the emergence of modern liberalism and 60’s radicalism. Maybe going back even further you could say the rot started post World War 2 when the Utopian intellectuals seized the pulpit.

[Pickle2]

... but it is! Remember: French property is cheap, cheap, cheap. I'll be moving somewhere nice, not poo, on the proceeds of my modest drum.

I think this is a key point. The "problem" with Britain is that people born into the middle classes are now often seeing themselves slide backwards in the social pecking order. Its not that "nice" bits of britain like those some grew up in no longer exsist - its that some people that were born into that kind of lifestyle can no longer afford it. I think they call it social mobility.

Not sure Why I should have to live in the pikey craphole estate I was brought up in just because I was born there. Of course, by moving to a nicer area Im condeming someone born in the nicer area, but who has been less financialy succesful, to move out of that area, but thats the way of it.

A lot of this white flight to france etc is by middle class brits who want the lifestyle at home, but cant afford it.

[richard-af]

I think this is a key point. The "problem" with Britain is that people born into the middle classes are now often seeing themselves slide backwards in the social pecking order. Its not that "nice" bits of britain like those some grew up in no longer exsist - its that some people that were born into that kind of lifestyle can no longer afford it. I think they call it social mobility.

Not sure Why I should have to live in the pikey craphole estate I was brought up in just because I was born there. Of course, by moving to a nicer area Im condeming someone born in the nicer area, but who has been less financialy succesful, to move out of that area, but thats the way of it.

A lot of this white flight to france etc is by middle class brits who want the lifestyle at home, but cant afford it.

Yep.

[gingerjedi]

ok ok calm down lads,

how many have left or are planning to leave ?

Milan.

I want to leave but the ease of earning keeps me here, I could sell up, pay of my mortgage and get a 4 bed detached with land in rural France with what’s left over.

I have the mentality that if I hang on for another 5 years I could get an 8 bed Châteaux, what for I don't know?... must be mad. or scared of change.

[DodgyAgent]

There's another Thread today about Boris Johnson running for London mayor. Another telling sign that we, as a Nation, couldn't actually care less about who runs things for us. And I'm not having a go, in particular at Boris (though he is a ******); it's the whole celeb-for-PM attitude, that we all seem to endorse, and then, like me, whinge like babies when we see what it leads to.

The jury is out as to whether Boris can run anything. He cannot be any worse than Ken. Why do these people have so much power and yet have no track record of delivering anything. In my view the state should run nothing. all it should do is act as a referee, redistributor of wealth in order that money is not the defining determinator of how people live (vouchers in education and healthcare is never discussed).

Most discussion on redistribution of wealth is not centered around the most effective and logical solutions to the delivery of healthcare and education. Most discussions centre around guilt envy and greed. Tax is considered a way of punishing people and carrying out social engineering. It is viewed as a way of alleviating guilt. No one seems to discuss what is the most effective way of delivering services.

[The Lone Gunman]

It is systemic and endemic.
It is not beyond redemption, it never will be, but it will take maor than a few good men and true to recover it.
I do not see a recovery as long as the politicians are palying fast and loose with our nation by delivering populist policy with no substance and ignoring or squashing those who may have the will to rebuild.
It will not be easy and it will probably be painful possibly catastrophically so for some, but we can do it.
It starts at the bottom.
We need to motivate and mobilise the dependant and the needy, without endangering the welfare of those who can not help themselves.
We need to offer them jobs that they see as worthwhile even if they are meenial. We need to stop pandering to their wishes and instead provide them with the means and aspirations to achive.
We need to let the achievers run with the ball, encourage them to do better by giving them incentives instead of hurdles.
We need to make sure the wealthy realise their responsibility to put back their wealth into the community that generated it.

The only political party who gets anywhere near this is unelectable.


** This could be a much bigger post, but idont have time.

[Hart-floot]

1) Chavs
2) Tesco
3) Chavs.

Wait till Carrefour gets a proper grip on your beloved France and starts building 100,000 sqft supermarkets outside idyllic villages.

In France there are laws that prevent the big hypermarkets from opening up in City, small town Centres & villages, they are restriced to commercial zones on the edge of town only. With the result that the towns are not cloned like ours in GB yet the big stores are still available.

Even though France has loads of mega successful corporations it does support (protect) small business in a large way and Sarko is continuing this and getting rid of alot of the beaurocracy. In this country, unfortuanately, we just follow the American way of big business with all the cloned shops, cloned coffee shops, pubs etc, screwing small contractors like us in favour of the outsourcers etc

Also, the parts of France that the British settle in like Gascony, Aquitaine, Dordogne, languedoc etc are problem free largely because there are no decent jobs there these days, the young move away to the nearest big city like Toulouse, Bordeaux or even to London leaving behind a de-populated region.

[richard-af]

The jury is out as to whether Boris can run anything. He cannot be any worse than Ken. Why do these people have so much power and yet have no track record of delivering anything. In my view the state should run nothing. all it should do is act as a referee, redistributor of wealth in order that money is not the defining determinator of how people live (vouchers in education and healthcare is never discussed).

Most discussion on redistribution of wealth is not centered around the most effective and logical solutions to the delivery of healthcare and education. Most discussions centre around guilt envy and greed. Tax is considered a way of punishing people and carrying out social engineering. It is viewed as a way of alleviating guilt. No one seems to discuss what is the most effective way of delivering services.

I think the State should run the essentials (water, gas, etc.) - they have to be non-profit. Have to be.

Boris, etc. Blair is, as Roy Jenkins so rightly said "Not a fine brain" - why do we ever put up with third-raters in positions of, to all intents and purposes, absolute power? Because we don't really care. One house price crash is all it'll take to bring the UK to a grinding halt. We, as a Nation, seem to have forgotten the plot.

[DodgyAgent]

I think the State should run the essentials (water, gas, etc.) - they have to be non-profit. Have to be.

Boris, etc. Blair is, as Roy Jenkins so rightly said "Not a fine brain" - why do we ever put up with third-raters in positions of, to all intents and purposes, absolute power? Because we don't really care. One house price crash is all it'll take to bring the UK to a grinding halt. We, as a Nation, seem to have forgotten the plot.

whatever is run needs to have the dynamics of choice, competition and responsibility. The state is the worst runner of anything so why on earth one would want it to run "essentials" I dont know. Utilities like everything else should be run on the basis of making profit. It is the profit motive that makes things run and gives them accountability. I have never understood this mistrust of profit.

The challenge the govt should have is creating effective competitive environments that are not by nature competitive. In turn govts themselves should make their own quangos competitive. Problems I know, but no one seems to be discussing them from any other angle such as this.