Road pricing bill before Commons

[dang65]

I think public transport for commuting is generally aimed at normal people that work in town and live in the suburbs, maybe 30 or 40 minutes away, that sort of thing. It hardly makes sense to try and lay on a cross country train at 7am just to carry maybe three people that happen to work bizarre distances away from home.

[BoredBloke]

"It hardly makes sense to try and lay on a cross country train at 7am just to carry maybe three people that happen to work bizarre distances away from home."

So ask yourself this, why is the M60, which completely rings Manchester busy in rush hour periods? Is it becuase people enjoy lapping Manchester or is it because lots of people live 'bizare' distances from work. Or could it be that the current public transport model simply does not work in this day and age.

As I pointed out in my example before, I had a role which was 38 miles around the M60 (so not direct which would have been shorter) and actually looked into the possibility of using public transport. I could not fit 8 hours in the office at all. It simply was not possible.

[dang65]

As I pointed out in my example before, I had a role which was 38 miles around the M60 (so not direct which would have been shorter) and actually looked into the possibility of using public transport. I could not fit 8 hours in the office at all. It simply was not possible.

You keep mentioning this role. Was it Rochdale to Alderley Edge?

I've had a look on the Web. Rochdale to Alderley Edge is 21 miles as the crow flies. That puts it marginally outside cycling distance (though an enthusiastic cyclist would do it). Alternatively, there's a train from Rochdale at 06:58am arriving at Manchester Victoria for 07:33am. Then there's a pleasant 1 mile walk across town to Manchester Piccadilly where you get a train at 07:58am to arrive at Alderley Edge for 08:25am. I believe AstraZeneca lay on a shuttle bus from the train station. That might be from Wilmslow, but same difference as far as the train goes.

So you could do the journey in about 1.5hrs or so. Might be quicker by car, I'm not sure really. The M60 traffic, as you say, gets pretty mental at rush hour time. I'd guess about the same time really.

I can't find monthly railcard prices online right now, but my ticket for twice that distance is just under 150 quid, so yours would probably be a bit less than that - let's guess a 100 quid a month. Say 20 working days = £5 a day for return travel.

Have I missed something?

[BoredBloke]

No it wasn't alderley edge and your starting point of Rochdale is not correct. I live in a small village 3 miles from Rochdale. So what it would be using your route is

1 - a walk into the village. Probably about half a mile.
2 - a bus into town.
3 - a mile walk from the bus station to the train station
4 - a train into Manchester.
5 - probably another bus to Christie fields, leaving from Picadilly gardens, so the bulk of the 1 mile pleasant walk you suggested.

So thats 2.5 miles walking there, 2.5 miles walking back. A minimum of 3 forms of public transport. Also, the buses where I live go on a vastly reduced timetable of 1 per hour once you get past 6pm, but if I could catch the early bus, a minimum of 3 hours commuting to do 8 hours in the office.

"Rochdale to Alderley Edge is 21 miles as the crow flies. That puts it marginally outside cycling distance "

I would not consider 42 miles per day cycling and neither would anybody else. Also, consider that 'how the crow flies' is not the same as real distances. For me, alderly edge would be 26 miles(avoiding motorways - but including a long treck down the a34 which I would not consider), so 52 miles round trip, or 260 miles per week. I would put that massively outside cycling distance especially since I would have to lug a change of clothes and my laptop with me.

"So you could do the journey in about 1.5hrs or so. Might be quicker by car, I'm not sure really. The M60 traffic, as you say, gets pretty mental at rush hour time. I'd guess about the same time really."

Yes you can. Leaving at 7 I was able to get to the AZ site at Alderley Edge for 8. I'd arrive ready for work and not drenched due to my 2.5 miles of lugging my laptop through the rain as part of our integrated public transport system. As everybody knows, it rains a lot in Manchester.

"I can't find monthly railcard prices online right now, but my ticket for twice that distance is just under 150 quid, so yours would probably be a bit less than that - let's guess a 100 quid a month. Say 20 working days = £5 a day for return travel."

I have checked and couldn't find a travel card which allows peak time use of any tram/bus/train in Manchester. Not as far as I could see anyway. A number were available for bus only, but I need trains also.

"Have I missed something?"

I would say so. Your 'solution' would be fine if I wanted to go into manchester and that was all. Your solution fails when you then have to head back out again.

So what is your commute which you find so easy on public transport?

[Addanc]

Well, it's not true to say that public transport hasn't been improved in the last ten years. It's certainly a lot more clean and comfortable than I can ever remember previously, and I've been using public transport for nearly 40 years.

Try the cattle-carts into Manchester.

It's not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than the car.

I would dispute that statement. If you want people to use trains why do you pay three times the price during rush hour?

It's clearly a lot safer and smoother than ever before as well.

Most of the trains I travel on must be at least twenty years old and some. They just been bloody lucky that there has not been a major accident. They are seriously over subscribed during the rush hour, but the feck-wits haven't the brains to add extra carriages on all their services during rush hour. They couldn't run the proverbial piss-up in a brewery.

Obviously it's not as quick and convenient as a car, but then a car isn't as quick and convenient as a helicopter.

One other thing that private cars and private helicopters have in common is you don't have chav scum sneezing and coughing all over you. You can keep your disease incubators.

If you can afford to work a long distance from home then keep paying. I don't know what you're complaining about.

One thing that I will predict is that road charging will add to inflationary pressure; it all get added into the price.

Do you want some kind of special allowance because you travel a long way to work? I don't think it would be very popular among people who pay huge rents to live in cramped conditions in town if people like you living in massive houses in the countryside for less money were also getting a discount on their travel costs.

If new lie implement road pricing I think a number of town centres will become job free zones, business will locate elsewhere and another social experiment at the expense of the UK population will have failed.

I'm declaring a new lie moron alert: dang65 . Does anybody know the location of his/her medication.

[gingerjedi]

It is ridiculous to come on a contractor’s site and bang on about how cars are not needed, flexibility is key to contracting and cars make this possible.

[dang65]

So what is your commute which you find so easy on public transport?

I cycle four miles from my house to the train station at Manchester Airport. I get a train from Manchester Airport to Preston and then walk a mile from the station to work.

It is a long train journey - over an hour - because it's a stopping train, but it's very reliable and there's always a seat. I do drive occasionally, usually when I have to be back home early for an appointment or something, and there's no doubt that driving is a lot quicker... if I'm lucky to miss the jams which can hit anywhere without warning.

By-the-way, I'm surprised that a local would say it rains a lot in Manchester. I cycle pretty much every day and I can tell you that it's very rare to get wet during commuting hours. It's another of those things that a car driver perceives incorrectly, along with cold. The last few winters have been incredibly mild and dry, and I've cycled through every winter for the last 20 years so I know from experience.

I live in a small village 3 miles from Rochdale. So what it would be using your route is

1 - a walk into the village. Probably about half a mile.
2 - a bus into town.
3 - a mile walk from the bus station to the train station

This is just daft. Why would you use a bus to go a mile and a half? If it's 3 miles from home to the station then use a bike. You're doing the typical addicted car driver thing of finding any possible excuse not to use public transport when it's there, easy to use, and thousands of people do use it every day, no problem.

If you do insist on continuing to use your car, then at least admit it's a luxury and that you deserve to have taxes piled onto you for it. It makes your life easier, that's all.

[IR35 Avoider]

If these commuters stopped commuting then London would grind to a halt.

The flaw in your argument is the idea that charging is an on-off switch, that every journey is stopped or none is stopped. In practise if the charge is set at the right level you will have (maybe) 80% commuting exactly as before, 19% switching times or modes of transport and 1% not travelling any more. Let's say that results in a net 18% reduction in vehicles at a particular place at a particular time, making transport system (especially buses) more reliable.

[dang65]

One other thing that private cars and private helicopters have in common is you don't have chav scum sneezing and coughing all over you. You can keep your disease incubators.

That's fine. All I'm asking is that people admit that this is what they're paying for and why they love their cars so much. Don't make excuses about cars being essential and indespensible, they plainly aren't. I worked in London for 16 years, then in the Isle of Man for a year and in and around Manchester for the last 7 years, plus a few months in Paris during that time and I've never once had to use a car. On a couple of occasions I've used a car for convenience and speed, sure. I treated myself. It was a luxury. When I needed the money for something else then I stopped using the car.

[gingerjedi]

I cycle four miles from my house to the train station at Manchester Airport. I get a train from Manchester Airport to Preston and then walk a mile from the station to work.

It is a long train journey - over an hour - because it's a stopping train, but it's very reliable and there's always a seat. I do drive occasionally, usually when I have to be back home early for an appointment or something, and there's no doubt that driving is a lot quicker... if I'm lucky to miss the jams which can hit anywhere without warning.

By-the-way, I'm surprised that a local would say it rains a lot in Manchester. I cycle pretty much every day and I can tell you that it's very rare to get wet during commuting hours. It's another of those things that a car driver perceives incorrectly, along with cold. The last few winters have been incredibly mild and dry, and I've cycled through every winter for the last 20 years so I know from experience.


This is just daft. Why would you use a bus to go a mile and a half? If it's 3 miles from home to the station then use a bike. You're doing the typical addicted car driver thing of finding any possible excuse not to use public transport when it's there, easy to use, and thousands of people do use it every day, no problem.

If you do insist on continuing to use your car, then at least admit it's a luxury and that you deserve to have taxes piled onto you for it. It makes your life easier, that's all.

So what happens when your next gig is in the middle of nowhere? Or are you a permie with a grudge?