Road pricing bill before Commons

[BoredBloke]

Public transport is not an alternative for everybody - we all know this dispite what dang might say.

A while ago I had a role on the south side of manchester. I have just done a route plan on the aa website and it's a total of 24.8 miles and that is going around the M60 (around the outskirts of manchester rather than the shorter straight line which public transport would use. (i.e. into the middle and out again) Total travel time was estimated to be 38mins by car - I found it to be less than this as I started early to avoid traffic.

There is NO WAY AT ALL that I could work at this location AND go by public transport AND fit 8 hours in the office. There was also no way I could get to the office for 9. Below is the earliest I could get there.

It was not possible to get a route from home to the site for a 9 am start

Below is what I would need to do to get there for 10

Bus Depart: 7:59 Scarfield Drive Service Number: 461
Provider: Rossendale Transport
Arrive: 8:30 Bury Interchange HAYMARKET ST
Walk Depart: 8:30* Bury Interchange HAYMARKET ST
Arrive: 8:31* BURY INTERCHANGE (Metrolink), BURY (TOWN CENTRE), Bury
Metro Depart: 8:42 BURY INTERCHANGE (Metrolink), BURY (TOWN CENTRE), Bury Provider: Metrolink
Arrive: 9:19 STRETFORD (Metrolink), STRETFORD (METROLINK), Trafford
Walk Depart: 9:19* STRETFORD (Metrolink), STRETFORD (METROLINK), Trafford
Arrive: 9:22* Edge Ln/Stretford Tram Stop (stop K)
Bus Depart: 9:31* Edge Ln/Stretford Tram Stop (stop K) Service Number: 23
Provider: Stagecoach Manchester
Arrive: 9:41* Barlow Moor Road/Barlow Hall Road
Walk Arrive: 9:42*


So just a little under 2 hours to get to work. However, the latest I could set off for home was 16:13.

Depart: 16:13* Walk to: Princess Rd/Barlow Moor Rd (stop E)
Bus Depart: 16:24 Princess Rd/Barlow Moor Rd (stop E) Service Number: 101
Provider: Stagecoach Manchester
Arrive: 16:45 Piccadilly Gardens (stop N)
Walk Depart: 16:45* Piccadilly Gardens (stop N)
Arrive: 16:46* PICCADILLY GARDENS (Metrolink), MANCHESTER PICCADILLY GA, Manchester
Metro Depart: 16:52 PICCADILLY GARDENS (Metrolink), MANCHESTER PICCADILLY GA, Manchester Provider: Metrolink
Arrive: 16:57 MANCHESTER VICTORIA, MANCHESTER VICTORIA STAT, Manchester
Walk Depart: 16:57* MANCHESTER VICTORIA, MANCHESTER VICTORIA STAT, Manchester
Arrive: 16:58* MANCHESTER VICTORIA (rail)
Rail Depart: 17:03 MANCHESTER VICTORIA (rail) Provider: Northern Rail
Arrive: 17:25 ROCHDALE (rail)
Walk Depart: 17:25* ROCHDALE (rail)
Arrive: 17:27* Maclure Rd/Rochdale Rail Stn (stop D)
Bus Depart: 17:41* Maclure Rd/Rochdale Rail Stn (stop D) Service Number: 471
Provider: First
Arrive: 17:45 Rochdale Bus Station SMITH ST
Bus Depart: 17:53 Rochdale Bus Station SMITH ST Service Number: 461
Provider: Rossendale Transport
Arrive: 18:04 Scarfield Drive
Walk Arrive: 18:11*

So It would take another 2 hour commute to get home. And this is providing that everything runs to time. So 38mins each way or 4 hours commuting allowing only 7.5 hours in the office. OK where I live is a smallish village 2-3 miles from Rochdale (and 12 from Manchester city centre), but I'm hardly in the back of beyond. My destination was just off Princess Parkway - one of the major routes in and out of Manchester.

All timings come from the GMPTE journey planner.

[scooterscot]

Well I think it's a good idea, I'll vote for road pricing as long as the scheme does not cross the border!

[Paddy]

I've posted this before, but look at it this way:

If you want to go swimming then you have a few options. You could build a private swimming pool in your back garden; you could take out membership of the local private health club; you could go to the local community leisure centre; or you could go and swim in the nearest river.

Walking or cycling is the equivalent of swimming in the nearest river; getting a bus or the train is like the leisure centre; using a taxi or first class on the train is like the private health club.

Running your own private car, or more than one, is like having a private swimming pool in your back garden.

The problem is that people have become so mollycoddled in this country that they have no idea of how much of a luxury they are able to afford - to the point where they actually get upset when anyone even makes a feeble attempt to reduce car useage by a fraction.

Here's a good example of someone a bit thick over on the BBC Have Your Say page:


Right, for the slightly retarded, let's try and explain. We don't want so many cars on the road. They stink, they're noisy, they're dangerous, they're driven by twats. For this reason, we charge a lot of money for you to use your car. So much that you can only afford to drive if you are very wealthy indeed. Unfortunately, it seems that our calculations about how many ridiculously rich people there are in this country were slightly wrong, so we're going to have to keep charging more and more until people stop driving so much. Like, everywhere. All the time.

If my local swimming pool was only open for ten minutes every two hours between 9am and 6pm and even then once you got in there was not enough room to swim; I would want my own pool.

[wendigo100]

Houses are a luxury too. All that central heating, and using up the world's water resources.

I think we should go back to living in trees. I've got a one in my front garden.

[BoredBloke]

"It's 40 miles back home as well mate, an 80 mile round trip. £7.50 is for the return train journey."

Where the hell do you live and work to get a 80 mile round trip on public transport for that price at commuting time?

[gingerjedi]

"It's 40 miles back home as well mate, an 80 mile round trip. £7.50 is for the return train journey."

Where the hell do you live and work to get a 80 mile round trip on public transport for that price at commuting time?

I think he's a bus driver!

My jouney by car is 56 miles round trip and I'm guessing a train would be about 40 miles due to it being a more direct route, a return on the train for me is about £9 so I think he is getting a very good deal.

[fzbucks]

I've posted this before, but look at it this way:

If you want to go swimming then you have a few options. You could build a private swimming pool in your back garden; you could take out membership of the local private health club; you could go to the local community leisure centre; or you could go and swim in the nearest river.

Walking or cycling is the equivalent of swimming in the nearest river; getting a bus or the train is like the leisure centre; using a taxi or first class on the train is like the private health club.

Running your own private car, or more than one, is like having a private swimming pool in your back garden.

The problem is that people have become so mollycoddled in this country that they have no idea of how much of a luxury they are able to afford - to the point where they actually get upset when anyone even makes a feeble attempt to reduce car useage by a fraction.

I take it you still have an outdoor comunal toilet then and share a toothbrush? We are allowed to have our own possesions, we have worked hard for them - we are not YET communists so why is wanting and working for and BUYING and paying to run our own cars being mollycoddled?

[OwlHoot]

despite something like 1.8m signatories to an online petition against this policy, it comes a step further

How many more times?

Road pricing, HIPs (the energy certificate part), ID cards, DNA databases, etc, are all EU initiatives. That means the UK government, and us, have no say in the matter. It would make no difference if there were 60 million signatories!

Any time the government persist, with lunatic obstinacy, in some unpopular and probably hugely expensive policy (which even they may have qualms about) you can be absolutely sure the EU is behind it, and it will go ahead come what may.

[fzbucks]

If you can afford to work a long distance from home then keep paying. I don't know what you're complaining about. Do you want some kind of special allowance because you travel a long way to work? I don't think it would be very popular among people who pay huge rents to live in cramped conditions in town if people like you living in massive houses in the countryside for less money were also getting a discount on their travel costs.

So everyone working away from home lives in a big country house - are you for real?

I have to travel a long way to work because the job I do is simply not available in my hometown where I live not in a mansion in the countryside but in a normal house, perhaps I was foolish to think I could do my line of work and should have got a job in McDonalds in the town cnetre like some of the chavs I went to school with eh?

[BoredBloke]

My personal feeling is that public transport works when the following are in place

1 - an absolute sh!t load of investment gets carried out to increase the capacity and quality. Our train network is running at near 100% capacity and people are being priced off at high demand times. So if you price them off where do they go? Back into their cars. If they are priced out of these then where do they go then?

2 - You work in, or close to a town centre. If you work in a shop in the centre of Manchester, then it's a no brainer to get public transport. I say a shop, simply because there is sod all left in there. There are not many big employers in the centre because they all reloacted to out of town offices which do not fit with the traditional public transport model. That is, fine for moving people in and out - cr@p at moving them around the edges. So in this push to leave the city centres, where did they decide to locate? Usually near the motorway in a place with little or no public transport.

Figuring that my example before was flawed due to me living in a village near rochdale (somewhat out of the way) I tested this again on the GMPTE journey planner. This time taveling from Manor Avenue in Sale to Simonsway in Wythenshaw. Both areas with good public transport and motorway links. The distance in a car is 5.4 miles yet using whatever combination of public transport is available it will still take an hour during the rush hour. 5.4 miles per hour!!!!

3 - You are gloing to stay in a particular job for a very long time. Obviously this is not the case for a contractor. If you are going to spend the next 20 years going to the same place of work then it's obvious that you can relocate to take that into account. My contract runs out in 6 weeks. I might get it extended, but if I do I wouldn't relocate on the back of another 3 month extension.