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DisHonest Practice

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    #41
    Originally posted by DodgyAgent
    The practices of many recruitment agencies are deplorable but very carefully "risk managed". Agencies know that indulging in good aftercare for contractors is a waste of precious time. After all despite what some of you may think it is the clients who are paying them not you guys. Contractors will put up with a lot in order to secure the contract that they want, and no one can blame them for that. Although we all may loathe the spivvy antics of Computer People, Huxley and the others it is no coincidence that these agencies are the most sucessful, and that the "nicer ones" are not.

    These agencies are like politicians they say all the right things about caring for their contractors but they know full well that rewards in this industry come from continual contact and hustling of clients. They do not come from wasting time returning calls to contractors who they have no immediate chance of placing.

    It is the Alan Sugar way, it is the Foxtons way, it is HSBC's way, it is how business works; by understanding its customer and by understanding its market..
    I agree with this in terms of analysis of how the market works. But large %s do not just decrease income for contractors. They also increase costs for clients. Cutting out the middleman (which in a roundabout way is what a co-op does - or at least it takes the profit element out of the middleman) decreases the % margin so clients and contractors both win. Taking your points about indulging in aftercare and returning calls, I expect you're right again - a co-op could not start 'indulging' if it made it uncompetitive, but it could be up front about how it operates. Don't say someone will phone back if they won't. The members (contractors) can agree these rules and make them public so everyone knows what to expect.

    The agencies that surruptitiously take large %s would then be either uncompetitive to clients on cost or would be offering lower rates to contractors, in which case they would end up not with the best candidates (and therefore uncompetitive on quality).

    Going back to my 1st post, this would all depend on penetrating the market, and contractors getting together in the 1st place to set it up (which doesn't seem very likely to me),

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      #42
      Originally posted by Old Greg
      I agree with this in terms of analysis of how the market works. But large %s do not just decrease income for contractors. They also increase costs for clients. Cutting out the middleman (which in a roundabout way is what a co-op does - or at least it takes the profit element out of the middleman) decreases the % margin so clients and contractors both win. Taking your points about indulging in aftercare and returning calls, I expect you're right again - a co-op could not start 'indulging' if it made it uncompetitive, but it could be up front about how it operates. Don't say someone will phone back if they won't. The members (contractors) can agree these rules and make them public so everyone knows what to expect.

      The agencies that surruptitiously take large %s would then be either uncompetitive to clients on cost or would be offering lower rates to contractors, in which case they would end up not with the best candidates (and therefore uncompetitive on quality).


      Going back to my 1st post, this would all depend on penetrating the market, and contractors getting together in the 1st place to set it up (which doesn't seem very likely to me),
      You would still need to sell it, which would mean having to employ "the right type of people", and you would have to be able to match the right CV to the right job. I am afraid that there are already a good number of agencies trying to supply at low rates, but it makes no difference to the prescence of high rate suppliers.

      You need maybe to appreciate that price is not necessarily a deciding factor. You may have a supplier supplying at zero margins but that is of little use if the agency cannot supply or nail the rates to the contractors themselves down.
      Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by DodgyAgent
        You would still need to sell it, which would mean having to employ "the right type of people", and you would have to be able to match the right CV to the right job. I am afraid that there are already a good number of agencies trying to supply at low rates, but it makes no difference to the prescence of high rate suppliers.

        You need maybe to appreciate that price is not necessarily a deciding factor. You may have a supplier supplying at zero margins but that is of little use if the agency cannot supply or nail the rates to the contractors themselves down.
        This relates to my point about penetrating the market. Of course you need people skilled in the business. But in other industries, co-ops of small suppliers exist to cut out middlemen. Despite all your well made points, I don't see why it couldn't happen in this industry, except.... I suspect contractors are not the most 'cooperative'

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by Old Greg
          This relates to my point about penetrating the market. Of course you need people skilled in the business. But in other industries, co-ops of small suppliers exist to cut out middlemen. Despite all your well made points, I don't see why it couldn't happen in this industry, except.... I suspect contractors are not the most 'cooperative'
          I think for the time being that you are stuck with us
          Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

          Comment


            #45
            I've got no complaints so far - got a good lunch out of my agent. I'll come after you when things go wrong.

            Comment


              #46
              Hi Guys,

              I think the CO-OP model might be a good theoretical model but all no what happens when not for profit serves for the profit.

              I suppose like estate agents they are necessary, however even esate agents take a fixed fee, they dont add a percentage onto the house cost ? the agents negotiating day rates as part of there own daily fee is wrong, should be a fixed rate.

              As for agents placing and running with the money its not a bad business if you can generate the job roles in the first place.

              I certainly dont think the contractor market would have existed this long had it not been for the agents in the first place.

              As for slamming phones down on them, never my style.

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by Frus88ed
                Hi Guys,

                I think the CO-OP model might be a good theoretical model but all no what happens when not for profit serves for the profit.

                I suppose like estate agents they are necessary, however even esate agents take a fixed fee, they dont add a percentage onto the house cost ? the agents negotiating day rates as part of there own daily fee is wrong, should be a fixed rate.

                As for agents placing and running with the money its not a bad business if you can generate the job roles in the first place.

                I certainly dont think the contractor market would have existed this long had it not been for the agents in the first place.

                As for slamming phones down on them, never my style.
                Last one for the weekend and I promise not to mention co-ops again. Co-ops work with profit making companies. Agricultural co-ops sell produce on behalf of their members to end clients, cutting out the grasping buyers in the middle. Works very well.

                Comment


                  #48
                  I came over here from Oz last year and am nearing the end of my first contract. Certainly started cottoning on to the unethical tactics being used by agents while hunting for my first gig, and am dismayed to hear that these tactics are widespread...

                  However, I've got nothing but praise for my individual agent, Dan Shaw at Aston Carter. I was a little unlucky early on in my initial job hunt last year, after some good interviews, so Dan and his team made it a personal crusade to land me a contract. Since then, we keep in touch, at least weekly, and he goes out of his way to make sure things are OK down my end. A few times, particularly while requiring documentation and an emergency pay run for my HSMP Visa application, he's dropped everything to help out.

                  I'm expecting reality to sink in when my current contract ends in July, but I can (without any personal interest or gain) thoroughly recommend Dan.

                  Comment


                    #49
                    While we're praising - my first agency rep at Abraxas, Chris Winsdale, was an absolute star. He helped me with everything from co. setup to settling in, and would always get back to me in an instant, and move mountains to correct the odd payment error straight away.
                    When I was going through hell with Giant (what a stupid, stupid mistake it was to sign with them) he put them straight, and had the agency sub me when Giant was witholding pay. Probably the best agent I've ever dealt with.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by realityhack
                      While we're praising - my first agency rep at Abraxas, Chris Winsdale, was an absolute star. He helped me with everything from co. setup to settling in, and would always get back to me in an instant, and move mountains to correct the odd payment error straight away.
                      When I was going through hell with Giant (what a stupid, stupid mistake it was to sign with them) he put them straight, and had the agency sub me when Giant was witholding pay. Probably the best agent I've ever dealt with.
                      On the Abraxas front, I agree. Possibly the second best agency I've ever worked through.

                      (Not as good as "DodgyAgent Plc" but good nonetheless)

                      Comment

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