Why all this fuss about school places?

[DodgyAgent]

what is incredible is that schools are measured according to academic results. I do not know about anyone else by I measure my children according to how much they try and how much they enjoy their school.

[bobhope]

Trouble is, those things are harder to measure.

I agree the academic results aren't the be all and end all, but they're certainly important.

[lukemg]

Chap on the radio this AM - Results are almost entirely down to the type of people who attend the school. People who have no education don't encourage their kids to get some (in general I know there are exceptions)/live in areas where it's normal to fail at school, do so as well - you get assimilated.
Middle class profs/grads - provide encouragement + peer group try as well - they do better - end of.
Got a son - 7. Seriously considering private education. Forget this eton toffs rubbish, most of these private gaffs take very normal kids, weed out the chaff, have good facilities - you are buying an attitude that says I can do well, gives confidence and self-esteem that will stand him in good stead + the academic stuff.
Got to be worth a few grand I reckon.

[oraclesmith]

Why don't they have fun schools for those non-academic kids that don't aspire to be white collar professionals?

They could specialise in basic skills and practical stuff like go kart racing, camping, buying & selling and football. It would tone down the bad behaviour and make it easier on the teachers and on the kids that actually want to learn academic subjects at different schools. I don't see why everyone needs a degree to do well in the world.

[shaunbhoy]

It all boils down to what is "fair". If we jerrymander things to allow the chav kids into the good schools regardless of the fact that they live on sink estates miles away, then they will gradually drag the level of those school down to the mediocrity that passes for acceptable in the remaining schools. That way all of our children get an equal standard of schooling. Crap mind you, but equal to the rest, so ultimately "fairer" in the eyes of NL.

[lukemg]

Another good shout - but I would suggest a trade choice. kids/teachers know at 13, get these kids on a different path - suggest 5 or 6 courses in the 3rd year, building, joinery, sparks, brick-laying, plastering, decorating, roofing, plumbing, car mechanic etc etc.
Do maths and english alongside and preferably a business course option - invoicing, tax returns etc.
Years 4 + 5 specialise in 2 or 3 of the courses, they come out at 16 with a good grounding and potential and something to sell, maybe even offer advanced courses at college for 16-18's.
Everyone gets the chance to be good at something then and reading books isn't it for a lot !

[BoredBloke]

There is a reason why the chavs go to the worst schools. Because they make it that way. So instead what this lot try to do is move them from these poor schools and make the better ones worse.

[wendigo100]

My concern is with kids who didn't make it to the good schools, for whatever reason, but genuinely want to get their head down and learn.

They are the ones who deserve and often need most help, but being bundled in with gangs of chavs ensures that they are the least likely to get it.

[shaunbhoy]

My concern is with kids who didn't make it to the good schools, for whatever reason, but genuinely want to get their head down and learn.

Well I suppose they could always introduce a system whereby children were selected for places according to ability. That would address those problems. Oh no wait...............we can't do that because it is not "fair".
Oh well, the status quo it is then, with a soupcon of postcode lottery thrown in to skew the figures.

[The Lone Gunman]

Just bring back the 11+.
Those who pass get their choice.
Those who fail go to the nearest with a place.

*NOTE: Make sure it is hard enough so that not everyone passes.