Boom: There is a cure

[_V_]

And? it could have been 0% protection and no safety

I’ll take 90% at this stage

Still unclear if that stops infection (neutralises virus) or prevents Covid from developing but people can still infect others

There's so much money to be made by making improper claims, that is my worry.

[AtW]

There's so much money to be made by making improper claims, that is my worry.

Pharma will lose money from improper claims - it’s preliminary anyway, but 90% good enough - ethically they have to proceed fast due to ongoing pandemic

[AtW]

The best part is showing safety of the new (for humans) message RNA platform - that working means quicker updated vaccines to deal with, say - cute fluffy mink strain of Covid

90% is way better than expected, real way out - with that level of efficiency more people would be inclined to take it

[NotAllThere]

That's why I said domestic/commercial.

Specialist scientific freezers, of course. But makes it a bit more interesting delivering billions of doses to every person on the planet?

Plenty of products are routinely are shipped and distributed at very low temperatures. They're not really specialist - they're mainstream in the food, biotech and pharma industry. So your comment about domestic/commercial freezers is true, but as relevant as saying commercially available ovens can't get down to those temperatures.

A standard fridge size ultracold fridge costs about £6500 in the UK. Ultracold shipping is already big business in the global supply chain. A typical pallet size ultracold storage container can store 130l, holding between 4500 and 3250 doses (based on a single dose size, including packaging, of 30-40ml). The vaccine won't be given to everyone, it'll be targeted, but 200'000 pallets has enough for well over 0.5 billion people. That'll take maybe 3 months.

It's not as though the vaccine comes along and people go "Great. Now how are we going to make it and distribute it?". It's already been thought about and planned. Production of the necessary refrigeration units, for example, has been ramped up already for months.

The main question is not logistics or manufacturing, but whether the vaccine really is effective.

"[The] vaccine has been tested on 43,500 people in six countries and no safety concerns have been raised... Two doses, three weeks apart, are needed. The trials - in US, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, South Africa and Turkey - show 90% protection is achieved seven days after the second dose. Pfizer believes it will be able to supply 50 million doses by the end of this year, and around 1.3 billion by the end of 2021.

The UK should get 10 million doses by the end of the year, with a further 30 million doses already ordered."

[_V_]

Pharmaceuticals routinely are shipped and distributed at very low temperatures. They're not really specialist - they're mainstream in the biotech and pharma industry. So your comment about domestic/commercial freezers is true, but as relevant as saying commercially available ovens can't get down to those temperatures.

As far as logistics go, there already exist ultracold shipping containers of standard cargo size that keep goods at -60°C. Of course there are similar for airfreight. That means that they can be easily distributed by HGV or smaller vehicles. A standard fridge size ultracold fridge costs about £6500 in the UK. Ultracold shipping is already big business in the global supply chain - and it's not just pharmaceutical product. Plenty of perishable items are shipped this way globally.

A typical pallet size ultracold storage container can store 130ll, holding between 4500 and 3250 doses (based on a single dose size, including packaging, of 30-40ml). The vaccine won't be given to everyone, it'll be targeted, but 200'000 pallets has enough for well over 0.5 billion people. That'll take maybe 3 months.

It's not as though the vaccine comes along and people go "Great. Now how are we going to make it and distribute it?". It's already been thought about and planned. Production of the necessary fridges etc. has been ramped up already for months.

The main question is not logistics or manufacturing, but whether the vaccine really is effective.

Okay sure, the millions of little towns and villages in remote places on the earth have no worries then.

[AtW]

One big problem would be if annual vaccinations are necessary, helpfully anti-vaxxers will reduce demand - 60% vaccination at 90% efficiency should be enough

[_V_]

Pharma will lose money from improper claims - it’s preliminary anyway, but 90% good enough - ethically they have to proceed fast due to ongoing pandemic

I believe you sign away all legal rights at the point of taking the vaccine. You cannot sue if it doesn't protect you, or if it makes you sick or if you die.

So there are no comebacks to big pharma on this one.

[AtW]

I believe you sign away all legal rights at the point of taking the vaccine. You cannot sue if it doesn't protect you, or if it makes you sick or if you die.

So there are no comebacks to big pharma on this one.

Loss of future sales before they breakeven on R&D is the issue, plus (very important) if bad publicity would affect other products made by the same company

That’s really elementary, Watson

[NotAllThere]

Okay sure, the millions of little towns and villages in remote places on the earth have no worries then.

Well over half the human population doesn't live in little towns and villages. Are you suggesting if we can't get 90% coverage globally, we shouldn't bother? The first world will obviously be far better equipped to distribute the virus. It's equally obvious that remoter places will be hard to reach.

But do keep digging. I know it's hard for True Believers to admit to themselves they've got it completely wrong. Have a vege-burger to cheer yourself up.

[AtW]

There are other vaccines in 3rd stage that don’t require -60C freezing and some of them might just need 1 doze

90% efficacy is the new benchmark, excellent at that too