Ross Thompson's Loan Charge Suspension Petition

[Old Greg]

I, like yourself am entitled to my views. I see no need to insult people online simply because their views don't align with mine.

I'd like to know if you'd say the same of anyone that operated through a limited company? A number of these people certainly didn't and don't pay the same amount of PAYE that a fully employed person does? Where do you draw the line between avoided tax and aggresively avoided tax?

Where do you draw the line between honest and dishonest? Drawing lines is not necessary in this case, when use of a Ltd company is clearly on one side and loan schemes are clearly on the other.

But, to be fair and to give you a chance, could you explain how the scheme you used worked?

[NotAllThere]

I decided to change when I realised I was figuratively the only person who was declaring myself inside IR35 by operating in this manner.

You weren't. There were plenty of contractors using legitimate brollies, and others operating outside IR35 from their own ltd cos - and yet others operating as though they were outside IR35 from their own ltd cos when they weren't.

BTW, I myself am specifically concerned about the retrospective nature of the Loan Charge.

This is where I have some sympathy. While I think people availing of themselves were behaving out of stupidity and possibly cupidity, the LC seems disproportionate, and HMRC are incompetent, bullying and need their power reigning in.

[Old Greg]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll play along..... I like many have been a contractor for a number of years and operated through an umbrella company for the majority of it. I decided to change when I realised I was figuratively the only person who was declaring myself inside IR35 by operating in this manner. Perhaps, I should have gone down the limited company route! I'm not looking for sympathy though, I'm simply asking that people look into it themselves and make an informed decision before calling them scum.

BTW, I myself am specifically concerned about the retrospective nature of the Loan Charge. The way I see it is, how would a lot of people on here feel if HMRC decided that 95% of all contractors were inside IR35, and they were going to tax them accordingly for the previous 20 years? All while removing the individuals right to the courts?

You are conflating things here. Just because some retrospective taxation (e.g. retrospective taxation of honest contractors working via Ltd companies) is not justifiable, it does not mean that all retrospective taxation is unacceptable.

Look at it this way, it would not be acceptable for Parliament to tax going forward the hiring of a new employee at 200% of salary. It does not follow that all taxes on future activities are not acceptable.

[Old Greg]

You weren't. There were plenty of contractors using legitimate brollies, and others operating outside IR35 from their own ltd cos - and yet others operating as though they were outside IR35 from their own ltd cos when they weren't.
This is where I have some sympathy. While I think people availing of themselves were behaving out of stupidity and possibly cupidity, the LC seems disproportionate, and HMRC are incompetent, bullying and need their power reigning in.

Is the LC really retrospective? I don't follow it closely, but I understand that people have the choice to repay the loan if it is a genuine loan, or to pay tax if it is disguised remuneration. It is certainly a tax that arises from past decisions. But that is equally true of a property tax that is implemented for property owners who bought properties in the past, unaware that in the future a property tax would be implemented.

[stonehenge]

...when use of a Ltd company is clearly on one side and loan schemes are clearly on the other.

Arguably, Ltd is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between vanilla PAYE umbrella and schemes.

Ironically, many of these schemes probably didn't net much more than Ltd because a lot of promoters charged truly exorbitant fees.

If you are Ltd co contractor, the Government does view YOU as a tax avoider. They wouldn't have introduced IR35 anti-avoidance legislation otherwise. And nor would they be cracking down on it further with the new public sector regime and proposed extension to the private sector.

[BrilloPad]

Since they're not allowed to express their views in the HMRC Scheme Enquiries subforum, you're likely to get robust responses in General. In fact, in general, in General, nobody is ever nice to anyone.

And I can't wait until April 2020 when the "contractors" are going to get what they deserved.

[BrilloPad]

HMRC are incompetent, bullying and need their power reigning in.

Or they could direct their fire power to the scheme providers. Or large foreign companies.

[BrilloPad]

I don't follow it closely

That much is clear.

[BrilloPad]

Where do you draw the line between honest and dishonest?

Most CUK posters are honest. You are dishonest.

[Old Greg]

That much is clear.

Most CUK posters are honest. You are dishonest.

Nothing substantive to say?

Perhaps you would like to describe exactly how your scheme worked? Or do you need your safe space?