Which one of you is this? Times report on private sector IR35

[DodgyAccountant]

I think contractors are living in cloud cuckoo land if:

1. They think large companies are going to take on risk and the hellfire of HMRC in putting people as outside IR35 with all the comeback, legal pain, fines and issues that would give them.
2. Will just say "hey step into IR35 land, but don't worry here's another £200/day each for your losses now you are paying more tax and NI"
3. Won't call on bodyshops in India and Eastern Europe for "resources" on work permits and also offshore more work.

There may be a few ways around this.

1. Client forms separate company to provide its IT services that is within the definition of 'small' so contractors are outside IR35.

2. Contractors club together and work through companies with more than 5 independent shareholders - i.e. not Close companies. This would then not be a PSC (there is no legal definition of a PSC but this doesn't stop HMRC using the term).

3. Use an offshore company for billing. Agents not presently happy with this one but could change their minds - especially if in their interests.

4. Get own private work

5. Give up and retire

With any luck, sense will prevail and IR35 will not be applied to the private sector.

[LondonManc]

Shouldn't the tax-evading scumbag be taking home about £71k if he's taking everything out of HisLtd? Hopefully HMRC will be all over him like a tramp on chips - it's these sorts of things that Hammond is really after.

[Hobosapien]

That's not going to work on a contract by contract basis though, is it?

It will if you wait long enough for a local contract to come up and beat the competition to secure it, every time.

So remote clients will have to increase their rates as a cost of being remote.

Contractors will have to accept there's a chance of more bench time between contracts where the rate doesn't make it worth working away from home.

If contractors had true right of substitution they could do contract swaps with those they pass on the motorways each weekend so neither had to work away from home.

[Zigenare]

There may be a few ways around this.

1. Client forms separate company to provide its IT services that is within the definition of 'small' so contractors are outside IR35.

2. Contractors club together and work through companies with more than 5 independent shareholders - i.e. not Close companies. This would then not be a PSC (there is no legal definition of a PSC but this doesn't stop HMRC using the term).

3. Use an offshore company for billing. Agents not presently happy with this one but could change their minds - especially if in their interests.

4. Get own private work

5. Give up and retire

With any luck, sense will prevail and IR35 will not be applied to the private sector.

Not a bloody chance.

Btw, option 6 was the one for me - I spent 12 months with the client at the Worcester office - 120 miles from home, they made me an offer to go staff from their Bolton office - 6 miles from home, a (very)decent salary, very good pension. At my time of life and with my circumstances, the decision was an easy one to make.

6. Give up and go permy.

[Hobosapien]

Aye, option 6. Those thinking of throwing in the towel can for once look forward to client offers of permiedom, having used the contract as a get to know how bad a tulip show permie life would be like with them. Might not actually be all that bad, just requires a change in mindset to cope with a different way of working.

It starts to cross my mind as I get older, wondering if gliding into retirement via a permie job would be the saner approach. Like how aircraft save fuel by throttling back for the long descent to the airport.

[northernladuk]

There may be a few ways around this.

1. Client forms separate company to provide its IT services that is within the definition of 'small' so contractors are outside IR35.

2. Contractors club together and work through companies with more than 5 independent shareholders - i.e. not Close companies. This would then not be a PSC (there is no legal definition of a PSC but this doesn't stop HMRC using the term).

3. Use an offshore company for billing. Agents not presently happy with this one but could change their minds - especially if in their interests.

4. Get own private work

5. Give up and retire

With any luck, sense will prevail and IR35 will not be applied to the private sector.

That's just awful... absolutely awful. Nearly every one of those has been suggested every time IR35 has changed and everyone got shot down in flames. Hope you didn't waste too much time on that post.

[jamesbrown]

There may be a few ways around this.

1. Client forms separate company to provide its IT services that is within the definition of 'small' so contractors are outside IR35.

2. Contractors club together and work through companies with more than 5 independent shareholders - i.e. not Close companies. This would then not be a PSC (there is no legal definition of a PSC but this doesn't stop HMRC using the term).

3. Use an offshore company for billing. Agents not presently happy with this one but could change their minds - especially if in their interests.

4. Get own private work

5. Give up and retire

With any luck, sense will prevail and IR35 will not be applied to the private sector.

[Gibbon]

Bolton office - 6 miles from home, a (very)decent salary, very good pension.

Now we all know you're on 10K if the bonuses kick in.

[mav2005]

IR35 for PSCs

So the employment status will be determined by the end client. Do we expect clients to put every contractor under IR35 or can we expect there will be not much change and end clients will still prefer to have contractors outside IR35?

[swamp]

So the employment status will be determined by the end client. Do we expect clients to put every contractor under IR35 or can we expect there will be not much change and end clients will still prefer to have contractors outside IR35?

Some points of optimism:

The Government will find it much harder to strong-arm large private companies into issuing blanket assessments, as they did with NHS.

QDOS meanwhile have developed 'Off payroll compliance management solution'
Off-Payroll Compliance - Public Sector IR35 -Qdos Contractor which includes an insurance component.

HMRC have promised to modify CEST to include MOO.

A number of recent 'employment rights' cases suggest that blanket inside determinations may not be risk-free for the client/agency.