Thatcher 'saddened' by Pinochet death

[Cowboy Bob]

Do not get me started on France. I read more than the economic press ta.

The reason France has no jobs for it's young people is a lack of new industry, because it is bureaucratic to set up a business and almost impossible to fire someone. There is no culture of entrepreneurial business and the economy is not growing.

France has aviation because Airbus get government subsidies for R&D, as opposed to applying for loans like other 'business', shipping is mostly due to the navy.

I completely refute the fact that France has high levels of productivity, this is ridiculous. If there was the GCP would reflect this, GDP per capita has declined rapidly in the last 20 years. Their economy is stagnent, thanks to a culture of subsidies and an expectation of comfortable government jobs.

France's refusal to move away from high levels of protection and subsidy is a testament to their inability to compete in an open market.

You sound like you read the Sun. How can anyone who's actually been to France claim that their standard of living is less than the UK? Their economy is thriving, just that they place more importance on the "local" rather than the "global". As it should be. They're not dependent on anyone else economically, and when the US goes into the massive depression that it's teetering on the edge of, guess who's going to be affected less?

One of the places I'm considering moving to when I get to move out of this sh!thole is France. Nice little cottage in Provence will do me fine, and there's plenty of IT work in Cannes.

[Hart-floot]

Do not get me started on France. I read more than the economic press ta.

The reason France has no jobs for it's young people is a lack of new industry, because it is bureaucratic to set up a business and almost impossible to fire someone. There is no culture of entrepreneurial business and the economy is not growing.

France has aviation because Airbus get government subsidies for R&D, as opposed to applying for loans like other 'business', shipping is mostly due to the navy.

I completely refute the fact that France has high levels of productivity, this is ridiculous. If there was the GCP would reflect this, GDP per capita has declined rapidly in the last 20 years. Their economy is stagnent, thanks to a culture of subsidies and an expectation of comfortable government jobs.

France's refusal to move away from high levels of protection and subsidy is a testament to their inability to compete in an open market.

Dont want to big up the French but your wrong. French multi-nationals are doing very well globally right now. Productivity in France is far far higher than in the UK, one reason why they need less workers to do equivalent jobs. Infrastructure is vastly superior to that of the UK & USA too. It still manufactures things the world wants (trains, planes & cars) unlike the UK & the USA. It still can't compete with the City type jobs London has, the only thing keeping the UK economy going right now but the service sector is expanding.
The French need to have a more flexible job market to mop up youth unemployment but the reality is levels of inactivity are the same in the France as they are in the UK if you include people on incapacity benefit etc. And the French do this with a higher quality of life for its population than you get under New Liebour. Dont read about thousands of French Pensioners coming to this country to retire!

[sasguru]

Well that told her !

[Bagpuss]

Please explain how 'city type jobs' are keeping the economy going.

[shaunbhoy]

my assertion is supported by every economist including the govt's own figures:

Well THAT really caps off the argument then!!

[sasguru]

Please explain how 'city type jobs' are keeping the economy going.

He means service industry. Not there's anything wrong with that. It's just about getting the balance right ...

[sasguru]

Well THAT really caps off the argument then!!

Or the OECD, IMF or anyone else you care to name ...

[bogeyman]

Dont read about thousands of French Pensioners coming to this country to retire!

I think that sums up the argument nicely.

[Lucy]

National productivity doesn't measure up though, when you consider the unemployment rate as well (10%, almost double the UK). Yes France can produce high quality products, but as you said the extra effort costs, and it costs the unemployed in France jobs. Of course there is some business instinct, but there is also a government culture which is opposed to competition and which featherbeds existing industries, especially utilities. France's internet takeup rates did not start to catch up with the US, UK, Australia until the late 1990s, France has been dragged kicking and screaming into every new EU liberalisation like telecommunications and aviation.

French subsidies are far less than the US, and France is number one villain on agricultural subsidisation, screwing the efficient world producers in Aus/NZ/Argentina and developing countries, while sucking up taxpayers money from richer European countries for the privilege of inefficiently producing cheese etc. It is the world's second largest agricultural exporter as a result of Europe proppping it up.

Just because the UK screwed up its manufacturing sector with ever poorer quality and higher protection and subsidies, doesn't mean it is right.

The USA does actually produce more cars, planes and railway equipment than the French. French car manufacturers are mid sized and successful, more than UK ones, but Airbus is a big featherbedded European subsidised competitor for Boeing. It produces some very good planes, but never has to raise much private capital to do it.

Have to admit French quality of life has a lot to do with culture and attitude, and appreciation of enjoying life rather than moaning but still accepting mediocrity. (ie Britain)

1.6% growth last year is hardly thriving, when inflation is 1.8% - it's called standing still! Public debt at 67.6% of GDP is far from healthy (43.1% in UK). 20th in GDP per capita (purchasing power parity measure), below UK, Australia and USA.

[Bagpuss]

To be fair the unemployment rate here is more like 20% of those of a working age and at least 10% of the whole population.