HMRC's time machine setting sights on all graduates!

[Lance]

It's a bleedin' obvious policy for Labour. Obviously the Tories won't upset the landowners.

you would have thought.
The manifesto says

It doesn’t have to be like this. Labour will invest to build over a million new homes. By the end of the next Parliament we will be building at least 100,000 council and housing association homes a year for genuinely affordable rent or sale.

Sounds similar to the 250k new homes a year under Blair/Brown/Cameron. A vague aspiration without a plan.
We'll see if the conference season changes anything, but I doubt it as they need the middle-England voters to get over the line in a GE (unless they can win Scotland back).

[northernladyuk]

you would have thought.
The manifesto says


Sounds similar to the 250k new homes a year under Blair/Brown/Cameron. A vague aspiration without a plan.
We'll see if the conference season changes anything, but I doubt it as they need the middle-England voters to get over the line in a GE (unless they can win Scotland back).

Yes, build the houses, to whatever mix of private and social is desired. But don't let the landowners pocket the increase in value that comes with planning permission.

[SueEllen]

One thing you ignore in your arguments is builders landbanking.

So the landowner sells up, the land gets planning permission and the builder sits on it.

The only land I've not seen this happen to is where a commercial company e.g retailer wants a store. Then the store and flats get built.

[Lance]

Yes, build the houses, to whatever mix of private and social is desired. But don't let the landowners pocket the increase in value that comes with planning permission.

the thing is. What's wrong the landowners getting fair value for their land?
Neither they, nor the people who want to buy houses care. And we live in a free market don't we.
Fix the planning system and the market will solve the rest IMO

[Lance]

One thing you ignore in your arguments is builders landbanking.

So the landowner sells up, the land gets planning permission and the builder sits on it.

The only land I've not seen this happen to is where a commercial company e.g retailer wants a store. Then the store and flats get built.

How big a problem is landbanking though?
It might be around London but not up 'ere.
Didn't one of the parties say they'll make planning lapse after a period of time to prevent that though?

[northernladyuk]

One thing you ignore in your arguments is builders landbanking.

So the landowner sells up, the land gets planning permission and the builder sits on it.

The only land I've not seen this happen to is where a commercial company e.g retailer wants a store. Then the store and flats get built.

Things you can do:

1. Make planning permission expire after x years if not built on.
2. Make a condition of sale to builders that they complete building within x years.
3. Set up a partnership with builders where the builders never take ownership of the land but are instead contracted to build and sell houses on behalf of the state or local authority.

Refine the above and there's a workable solution.

[northernladyuk]

the thing is. What's wrong the landowners getting fair value for their land?
Neither they, nor the people who want to buy houses care. And we live in a free market don't we.
Fix the planning system and the market will solve the rest IMO

They do get fair value. The state buys land without planning permission. Nobody has to sell. Then the state grants planning permission. Seems both fair and in the public interest.

[SueEllen]

Things you can do:

1. Make planning permission expire after x years if not built on.
2. Make a condition of sale to builders that they complete building within x years.
3. Set up a partnership with builders where the builders never take ownership of the land but are instead contracted to build and sell houses on behalf of the state or local authority.

Refine the above and there's a workable solution.

Builder start building before the planning permission runs out but don't finish. In fact some developments are never finished properly so I guess only 3 would work.

[SueEllen]

How big a problem is landbanking though?
It might be around London but not up 'ere.
Didn't one of the parties say they'll make planning lapse after a period of time to prevent that though?

It does lapse so the builders build something on the land to say they have started the work.

They then don't finish until house prices go up. Seen it everytime the market has dipped with non-commercial private developments.

The issue isn't councils not giving planning permission as the government can and does ride roughshot over them, it's developer tricks.

[northernladyuk]

Builder start building before the planning permission runs out but don't finish. In fact some developments are never finished properly so I guess only 3 would work.

You have to finish. Or it gets auctioned off (presumably fire sale prices). All of this is manageable. But there is a need to see planning permission as a national resource and the value inherent in planning permission as a national asset.