Britain must have a 'grown-up debate' about tax increases...

[scooterscot]

The brutal truth is that no one wants to pay more tax. But we all want good high quality infrastructure and government services.

The UK is in a terrible mess, decades in the making. Blame on all sides.

Well Brexit means exactly that, paying more tax. Brexit is going to cost tens of billions. It has already cost £2 billion with elections and vote buying. And you WILL pay for it through your taxes. The UK is only one of the most taxed economies in the EU, not exactly a good starting point. Tories take more of the blame, they've tripped the debt and made enemies with our closest neighbours.

[scooterscot]

Much as I don't care for Thatcher, I think globalisation is largely to blame. The Western working class used to benefit from the suppression of industrial production in colonies and certain other non-Western countries. This ensured less competition for industrial labour and captive markets for manufactured goods. This has unwound in the post-imperial era, and other factors such as economic reform in China have come into play at the same time. Other changes have included the ability to move plant overseas quickly, the ability to move labour quickly, containerisation etc. etc.

Together these factors have had a downward effect on living standards in the Western working class, and an upward effect on living standards in developing countries. These trends increase inequality within Western countries, but decrease inequality between Western and developing countries. This is good if you are Chinese but not so good if you are a Western worker.

Don't agree. Norway continues to manufacture and export successfully in the high tax environment as does Der Schweiz. The UK simply kept milking the cow without any long-term planning. Pitiful investment in infrastructure and more focus on privatisation and profits.

Quality is just obsolete in the UK now. Inventiveness springs its head up from time to time only to be sold to a foreign entity before it's on its feet. In Germany they keep and make money off it.

[northernladyuk]

Don't agree. Norway continues to manufacture and export successfully in the high tax environment as does Der Schweiz. The UK simply kept milking the cow without any long-term planning. Pitiful investment in infrastructure and more focus on privatisation and profits.

Quality is just obsolete in the UK now. Inventiveness springs its head up from time to time only to be sold to a foreign entity before it's on its feet. In Germany they keep and make money off it.

Some Western countries will be more successful than others, but there is an overall trend for the West.

[BrilloPad]

Quality is just obsolete in the UK now. Inventiveness springs its head up from time to time only to be sold to a foreign entity before it's on its feet. In Germany they keep and make money off it.

If only you were still in the UK to show us the way.

[vetran]

Another way of looking at it is that the fire safety in Greenfell was so bad they have to issue an amnesty.

If in 120 flats they are unsure of how many were sublet that is a problem all by itself.

The fact it was uncovered by a tragedy is not relevant to this problem.

[vetran]

So you blame the Greenfell for increased taxes?

no I blame an out of control welfare state for increased taxes.

I blame the fast spread of the fire which caused massive loss of life in Grenfell on poor building & fire regulations that allowed those refurbishing it to apparently stay within the law despite creating a death trap.

I blame the poor exits fire doors etc on reduced fire inspections etc.

[northernladyuk]

If in 120 flats they are unsure of how many were sublet that is a problem all by itself.

The fact it was uncovered by a tragedy is not relevant to this problem.

It kind of is though.

[vetran]

It kind of is though.

only politically & morally.

If you wish to break the problems down to fix them then it isn't.

[The_Equalizer]

only politically & morally.

If you wish to break the problems down to fix them then it isn't.

I wonder if those that sub-let are having their rents put on hold?

[vetran]

I wonder if those that sub-let are having their rents put on hold?

I doubt it and I expect those that sublet will be given a new property...