Cryptocurrency

[GJABS]

Governments have been about controlling money, that has been their power. A chunk of that power is about to be removed of them.

Some truth in this. Governments in capitalist societies have always sought to be the referees over their central banks' money, not the players. The behaviour of banks and citizens using and transferring that money has always operated relatively freely, but within a strict set of rules (laws) defined by government. The input of government has been in setting taxation based upon transfers of that money between people when done so for the purposes of payment for work done, with governments demanding payment of the taxes in their own currencies. With the latter being the thing that gives the currencies tradeable value.

With Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, none of the above changes. Cryptocurrencies are able to be transferred between people, but if this transfer is for remuneration for work done, then governments will still demand payment of tax in their own currencies. So this keeps traditional currencies alive and with value.
Sure, people will attempt to use cryptocurrencies to evade tax - to transfer money without governments being aware of this. But just as with more traditional attempts at tax evasion, government spying and investigation, cyber investigation, will eventually be successful at matching trackable bitcoin and other cyber assets with their real-world owners, resulting in large real-world fines and prison for offenders.

Cyber currencies will eventually be replaced by government-backed and controlled cyber currencies that run alongside traditional currencies, with pegged values, and the ability to pay taxes using them. Other cyber currencies will die out, because they won't offer anything to users that government cyber currencies don't already offer. The only exception to this are cyber currencies that operate unlawfully. These will continue, but will be rather limited in scope because most people are not, and don't want to be, criminals. They will be like stolen goods, and have a value well below the real market value were they to be legal.

I expect other crpytocurrencies will be used by banks and credit cards for deposits and lending, with values pegged to the local governments currencies. But as with banks at the moment, they will be strictly audited and kept within lending limits etc.

All IMHO of course.

[vadhert]

I have been dabbling in these for a few years. Recently I bought Dash at $12 and sold off at $85 for a reasonable profit. Converted the profits back into Bitcoin.

I hold Bitcoin as a long store in value which it seems to be holding its own on compared to the paper fiat turd that we all work and slave for.

Welcome to currency devaluation. Please enjoy the long ride to the bottom.

[scooterscot]

Google, airbnb, Apple, Starbucks, global companies such as these choose which territory to pay tax. People demanding their government bring those global giants to heel are failing for a simple reason, individual governments have no duristriction. They can't. And I don't see governments of the world working together anytime soon to combat it either. Look at the united efforts of government on global warming, waste of time. Or war in Syria, conflicts of interest while the rest of us watch on.

Blockchain being managed by government? Centralised banks? I don't see it myself, that defeats the point IMO. Decentralisation works in a globalised world. The world is quickly becoming global in terms of trade.

[scooterscot]

Welcome to currency devaluation. Please enjoy the long ride to the bottom.

Completely. I'm holding a chuck of PIVX. I get new coins added to my wallet all the time like a form of interest at 4%.

PIVX is a hard fork of Dash.

[original PM]

Bitcoin is not private. Anyone can see who has done what bought what etc. Fiat money offers more privacy. If money laundering is your thing stay away from bitcoin!

Quoting HSBC, they're part of the problem.

"The chairman of HSBC has admitted his shame at the “horrible reputational damage” the bank has suffered following the revelations of the systematic aiding of tax avoidance at its Swiss subsidiary, but has refused to take personal responsibility for the failings."

Lol its all my doing, i got paid lots of money to make the decisions, but it is not my fault.

Heed my words this will soon not be acceptable and will result un federal punishment.

So dont do it kids.

[VectraMan]

Cyber currencies will eventually be replaced by government-backed and controlled cyber currencies that run alongside traditional currencies, with pegged values, and the ability to pay taxes using them.

What is a government backed cyber currency anyway? Virtually all my money/debt is in Cyberpounds already, being a number connected to an account on a computer system somewhere, so what would be the difference? What distinguishes Bitcoin is it's not government backed, and that it isn't centrally controlled, so a government backed Bitcoin is an oxymoron.

[Cirrus]

You asked why people on here are not buzzing about bitcoin/blockchain.

One reason is for many of us, this is same-old, same old. I remember Mondex a quarter of a century ago. It let you transfer money by sending digital strings. At the time there were several of these putative schemes. They all faded away. I didn't follow the story but I think - basically - the big players didn't want this kind of thing going on. The likes of Visa, Mastercard etc are quite happy flexing their big networks and business infrastructure. They offer some reassurance to users (fraud detection, charge-backs etc) and skim a dime off the top.

Why do you want bitcoin? You can move money anywhere you like at any speed. Well, the speed thing is affected by the delay you need to capture illegal transfers, fraud AML etc. That's not a feature of the technology as much as the challenge of security. Nice and simple.

Bitcoin is primarily for criminals. Lots of people have lost lots of cash when exchanges have been hacked but unlike John Doe, criminals are used to leaking cash so the whole circus carries on.

It may well have a lot of potential but it worries me that so far nobody seems to have explained it in black and white (apart from the Brexit-style "We'll all be free of tyranny")

[Pip in a Poke]

Did anybody watch the rather excellent American TV series called Start Up?

That was centred on a digital currency called Gen Coin and the nefarious ways that it got funded via dealings with gangsters, mafia etc and the doo-doo that the main characters seemed to end up in every week as a result of their shady dealings.

Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Which probably means it'll be canned after Season 1 just like Vinyl.

[scooterscot]

You asked why people on here are not buzzing about bitcoin/blockchain.

One reason is for many of us, this is same-old, same old. I remember Mondex a quarter of a century ago. It let you transfer money by sending digital strings. At the time there were several of these putative schemes. They all faded away. I didn't follow the story but I think - basically - the big players didn't want this kind of thing going on. The likes of Visa, Mastercard etc are quite happy flexing their big networks and business infrastructure. They offer some reassurance to users (fraud detection, charge-backs etc) and skim a dime off the top.

Why do you want bitcoin? You can move money anywhere you like at any speed. Well, the speed thing is affected by the delay you need to capture illegal transfers, fraud AML etc. That's not a feature of the technology as much as the challenge of security. Nice and simple.

Bitcoin is primarily for criminals. Lots of people have lost lots of cash when exchanges have been hacked but unlike John Doe, criminals are used to leaking cash so the whole circus carries on.

It may well have a lot of potential but it worries me that so far nobody seems to have explained it in black and white (apart from the Brexit-style "We'll all be free of tyranny")

There's never been anything like blockchain before.

I wish to use blockchain because it cuts down bureaucracy, cuts out middlemen. And no you can't move money around the world at any speed. If I wish to move Euros to GBP it still takes 1 day minimum, 2-3 days are typical. And that's because banks must make use of intermediaries before they can complete a cash abroad. I should be able to send money to you in seconds, blockchain allows that.

I don't store any of my wallets on a exchange. That would be foolish.

A black and white explanation of block chain below. Besides blockchain is not just about money. We should monetise rep here on cUK with ETH or similar. You'd understand it pretty quickly then!

[GJABS]

What is a government backed cyber currency anyway?

A government-backed cyber currency would be the same as bitcoin, except that there would be a fixed number of coins in circulation, with mining only possible by government computer scientists (who would hold a highly encrypted private key that would be necessary to mine new coins). As it would be impossible (due to mathematics) to create new coins, these coins would be able to be used alongside existing paper money (which also cannot be created) and bank of England base money (electronic accounts with the Bank of England) by the banks and large financial institutions.

Virtually all my money/debt is in Cyberpounds already, being a number connected to an account on a computer system somewhere.

A different type of cyber. Just an electronic record, not one managed by a blockchain.

Do be aware of the difference between base money and broad money. Base money is in the form of physical cash and bank of England deposits (as described above), whereas broad money is simply a contract between a private individual or company, and a regular bank (where this contract can be one of debt, where the person owes the bank money, or credit, where the person can see money available to spend, in "their" account at the bank).