Tony's last chance

[sasguru]

Pretty much everyone I knew at the time were behind it. And I mean friends, family, neighbours, everyone I worked with, people in pubs, people at bus stops....everyone!
Perhaps it was yet another north/south divide thing. (Or perhaps I mix with more people who read the Sun as opposed to the Times).

People were in shock over 9/11, and they wanted every country even so much as harbouring a terrorist to be nuked as far as I can remember.

Well all thinking people want terrorists liquidated. The Afghanistan war was right and was getting results till we had the sideshow that was Iraq. We should have put all our resources into flooding Afghanistan and killing Osama. The diversion of resources that was the Iraq war played right into Osama's hands:

(1) Allowed him to regroup and ally himself with insurgents in Iraq that Saddam knew how to suppress
(2) Acted as a recruitment sergeant for terrorists
(3) Caused a feeeling of victimisation among Muslims, an "us and them" mentality that was Osama's goal all along.

For this crass naivety Bush and Tone need to resign forthwith. Osama is probably laughing his head off at their stupidity.

[SallyAnne]

You must work with some pretty stupid people. Most of the 9/11 bombers were Saudi (America's allies). Iraq had no connection with 9/11, I thought even the dumbest of the dumb (outside of America) knew that.

The people who were carried away by the fear at the time didn't stop to think about that. They were terrified by what they'd seen, and they were terrified by what might happen next, to us.
There wasn't much logic going on.
9/11= terrorists.
Terrorists = Iraq, Sadam Hussien, and this new bloke Bin Laden.
= lets get them all.

Thats the reality of went on back then.

[sasguru]

The people who were carried away by the fear at the time didn't stop to think about that. They were terrified by what they'd seen, and they were terrified by what might happen next, to us.
There wasn't much logic going on.
9/11= terrorists.
Terrorists = Iraq, Sadam Hussien, and this new bloke Bin Laden.
= lets get them all.

Thats the reality of went on back then.

And foreign policy should be conducted on the basis of such "feelings"?

[Ardesco]

Oh for gods sake - thats the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. How can you compare them?!!!!!
I said Tony Blair has a good heart! He doesn't ******* slaughter people.

In that case why has he gone to war more time than any other prime minister since the second world war?

And what the hell do you think happens when we go to war? (i'll give you a hint, slaughter is involved...)

[wonderwaif]

Oh for gods sake - thats the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. How can you compare them?!!!!!
I said Tony Blair has a good heart! He doesn't ******* slaughter people.

And I'm not from that ilk - my folks voted for Maggie Thatcher, and changed our lives for the better in doing so.

Oh dear. How many Iraqis have died since he lied to get us to go to war?

[SallyAnne]

Oh dear. How many Iraqis have died since he lied to get us to go to war?

How many Iraqis are grateful that we are there and do not want us to leave?!!!

Far more Iraqis have died at the hands of their own people - which is something (again) I believe Tony Blair thinks he is tryng to help....and I think he is.

Anyway - I cant be arsed with this anymore. I'm not the new Chico!
I'd rather be decorarting than fighting with you all.

[swamp]

Thats the whole point Wendigo - I honestly believe he thought those weapons were there aswell.

I'm with SallyAnne on this one, I don't believe Blair lied as such. But Blair was responsible for fostering a political climate in the defense and intelligence agencies where they were heavily encouraged to come to the (wrong) conclusion that Iraq had WMD. In other words, it's still Blair's fault.

History will eventually record that ~1m Iraqis died in the civil war caused by the illegal invasion of Iraq, prompted in most part by the (incorrect) claim they had WMD. This will be Blair's shining legacy.

[wonderwaif]

How many Iraqis are grateful that we are there and do not want us to leave?!!!

Far more Iraqis have dies at the hands of their own people - which is something (again) I believe Tony Blair thinks he is tryng to help....and I think he is.

Anyway - I cant be arsed with this anymore. I'm not the new Chico!
I'd rather be decorarting than fighting with you all.

If only Tony would follow your example.

[Forumbore]

Oh dear. How many Iraqis have died since he lied to get us to go to war?

How many Iraqi's would have died had Saddam remained in power should be part of the equation. A lot of us supported the war on the basis that saddam had WMD, which he did not have. The problem (one of them) with Blair is that few people now trust him which has effectively neutralised our ability to go to war in the event that there is a real danger.

The reason why so few people support NL or the Tories is that we no longer see a differential between them. They both squander money on the NHS, they both do not bother to educate children, so saying that the NHS is better under NL than the Tories "because they put more money into it" is a fatuous argument (although party supporters try to kid us that it is not).

The point is that we still churn out disfunctional children through our awful education system and our NHS is exceptionally wasteful. Instead of doing whta politicians should be doing which is working out ways to actually improve, they fight their battles on the basis of class war and irrelevant benchmarks.

[wonderwaif]

How many Iraqi's would have died had Saddam remained in power should be part of the equation. .

Yes it should be part of the equation.
I thought it had been proven that 'we' had managed to be responsible for killing more people than Saddam managed, but I will examine your figures when you supply them and retract that statement if necessary.