Dodgy interview practices? What would you do?

[OwlHoot]

is there an echo in here?

DOH! Trying to do three things at once, and forgot where I had obtained the link!

[billybiro]

Tell them you are happy to come for the four days assessment, but only if they cover all your expenses, and pay you €1000 a day - on the basis that the work that you will be doing for them in those four days is of value to their company.

This. Absolutely this.

Also, in any situation like this, I always like to "put the shoe on the other foot" so to speak and see how they react. So, let's say this client's business is to sell widgets*. Expensive widgets. I'd tell them that I'm interesting in becoming a customer of theirs, but first they need to supply me with a dozen "widgets". For FREE. I'll need them, for free, in order to test the quality before I can decide to become a customer of theirs. And they won't get the widgets back, either.

Nine times out of ten, the company would baulk at the very idea, but this is effectively what they're asking of you. If the company wouldn't give you something of value for nothing, then you shouldn't give them something for nothing either.

* = Of course, widgets could be anything. Not necessarily even a tangible product, but could be hours of service etc.

[ECommerceConsultant]

Tell them you are happy to come for the four days assessment, but only if they cover all your expenses, and pay you €1000 a day - on the basis that the work that you will be doing for them in those four days is of value to their company.

Yes, when they requested the further 4 day trip, I said to them, "it's clear that you are still undecided about my skills - therefore, why don't we do a one month contract at an agreed day rate, and then you would have one entire month to assess my skills"? They said, "oh no, we're convinced about your skills, we don't need to do that."
My feeling is they just didn't want to pay 800 - 1000€ per day rate. Then a few days later, they dropped this "little assignment" on me.

[ECommerceConsultant]

This - while you may be looking for a job as there is value for them in doing this work you want to receive appropriate recompense for the work and given that there is no job currently existing it has to be at your usual commercial rates for prioritized freelance work.

However they also seem to be utter cowboys so bill as much as you can and don't expect any job to appear at the end of it.

Yes, you're right. That's exactly the approach I'll take. Thank you.

[ECommerceConsultant]

They contacted you with a job offer without speaking to you or interviewing - do you mean a job opportunity ?

I would politely say no as there are too many unknowns and hoops you are being expected to jump through.

Yes, you are right. Sorry, they contacted me with a job opportunity, and said they needed someone exactly like me. There is no job description, they would not give any indication about salary or package etc, until I said I can have no further discussions until they give an idea of the package. It's weird though, they tell me they have a policy of 100% visibility in the office - everyone gets to see what everyone else earns - so they said they have to be careful about what they pay me, because others might complain. They also sold it to me that in the Netherlands, there is a 30 percent ruling - which means all ex-pats pay 30% less tax. They said it's a huge benefit to me.
HOWEVER, they then said that because of the ruling, they would have to pay me 30% less than my previous salary, so that I would get the same net income. The only ones benefiting from the 30% is them!!!

I'm trying to find a new contract in the UK - I was contracting for 10+ years, but there seems to be nothing available - is it a slow time of year or has BREXIT wiped out all the contract work? I want to tell them to bugger off, but I'm worried I might not find anything else...

[ECommerceConsultant]

Agree with NAT.

Thank them for their interest and your daily consultancy rates are 3-4 * normal daily + reasonable expenses.

I don't think its a job. Possibly if they are Gartner or Oracle they might be but I think they give a written plan for interviews. Did they pay expenses?

Forbes Welcome - the-25-companies-that-give-the-most-difficult-job-interviews

I had 4 interviews once for a job, they then tried to offer me (and a colleague who unknown to me who had applied as well) less money than we were currently earning, not impressed. If they want to offer you the job they should know what you are worth by now.

There are companies that screw you about.

Yes, they paid expenses for me to go there for the three days. They are a small company, fairly unknown. They made it clear that they are very technically focused and they don't have anyone who could do the strategic client work for their retail clients. One of the employees over lunch one day told me that in January they have to do this big strategic piece for their client.
Then, coincidentally I get the request to create this strategic plan for this client. I wonder if they even know that their employee told me this work is due in January. I did like them but all of this has put me off - including their demand that I go for a further 4 days, I mean how long does it take to decide if you want someone to join your company or not? Normally 2-3 one hour interviews are ample. Not 3 days of intensive interviewing, plus personal assessments over evening dinners and at lunch etc.

That's a pee-take regarding your 4 interview experience - what a waste of your time when they offered you less than you were earning!!! Ridiculous!!

And yeah, I've heard before of consultants being asked to come for an interview, and they try to get your recommendations and advice, when in fact no job exists - they just wanted the free advice.

[ECommerceConsultant]

OTOH, if this was for a permie role were they one of these companies ?

no - not one of these, but I have met some of these companies before, and wouldn't say they're more difficult than the next company...
This company in question is just a small consultancy, not known at all, but trying to build their name.

[ECommerceConsultant]

is there an echo in here?

haha yes, there is!

[ECommerceConsultant]

This. Absolutely this.

Also, in any situation like this, I always like to "put the shoe on the other foot" so to speak and see how they react. So, let's say this client's business is to sell widgets*. Expensive widgets. I'd tell them that I'm interesting in becoming a customer of theirs, but first they need to supply me with a dozen "widgets". For FREE. I'll need them, for free, in order to test the quality before I can decide to become a customer of theirs. And they won't get the widgets back, either.

Nine times out of ten, the company would baulk at the very idea, but this is effectively what they're asking of you. If the company wouldn't give you something of value for nothing, then you shouldn't give them something for nothing either.

* = Of course, widgets could be anything. Not necessarily even a tangible product, but could be hours of service etc.

Yes, you're absolutely right, thanks for your response

[kaiser78]

Yes, you are right. Sorry, they contacted me with a job opportunity, and said they needed someone exactly like me. There is no job description, they would not give any indication about salary or package etc, until I said I can have no further discussions until they give an idea of the package. It's weird though, they tell me they have a policy of 100% visibility in the office - everyone gets to see what everyone else earns - so they said they have to be careful about what they pay me, because others might complain. They also sold it to me that in the Netherlands, there is a 30 percent ruling - which means all ex-pats pay 30% less tax. They said it's a huge benefit to me.
HOWEVER, they then said that because of the ruling, they would have to pay me 30% less than my previous salary, so that I would get the same net income. The only ones benefiting from the 30% is them!!!

I'm trying to find a new contract in the UK - I was contracting for 10+ years, but there seems to be nothing available - is it a slow time of year or has BREXIT wiped out all the contract work? I want to tell them to bugger off, but I'm worried I might not find anything else...

This time of year is always quiet for obvious reasons and should ramp up in the new year. BREXIT has had no direct impact on contract work(imho), although the market was slow in Sept/Oct and picked up a lot during last month. What I would say is don't force the job (I have made that mistake before), make sure you find what is right for you.