New tax needed to fund NHS and care, says ex-minister

[cojak]

Not quite sure why people do not realise but
1. Money does not grow on trees
2. No matter how much money is poured into the NHS there will never be enough.

Why we have to come at the problem as simply a matter of pouring more cash into it is beyond me.

I saw a Panorama-like programme by Brian Walden many years (25-30) ago on the NHS.

After an hours analysis that was his conclusion.

Medical advances and an ageing population (brought about in good measure by those advances) means that there will never be enough money in the pot.

[CretinWatcher]

All other major European economies use a mandatory insurance system with public and private sector suppliers. Almost all of them are superior in health outcomes to the NHS.
Unfirtunately there are too many simple minded cretins in this country who won't allow change, so the only solution is for the system to collapse first.

[VectraMan]

All other major European economies use a mandatory insurance system with public and private sector suppliers. Almost all of them are superior in health outcomes to the NHS.
Unfirtunately there are too many simple minded cretins in this country who won't allow change, so the only solution is for the system to collapse first.

WHS. You don't have to look far to see healthcare done much better. It's hanging onto "free at the point of use" ideal that is the problem.

[DimPrawn]

If we let all the poor people die, it will incentivise the lower classes AND reduce poverty.

[jonnyboy]

A few years ago, I was working on a NHS project, a little hush hush, I was giving the IT view/slant on some NHS proposals being put forward (which then went nowhere). The proposals boiled down to three ideas:

1) There would no longer be such a thing as A&E - instead it would be called "Emergency Medicine" (as per the USA). The difference was the dropping of the word Accident. Then in 3-4 years time after this rebrand, there would always be somebody at fault, and so the costs would be recharged. Involved in an RTA - it comes off of the 'at fault' drivers insurance, in a fight outside a pub, you pay the bills, fallen off a ladder, it comes of your home insurance
2) All treatments would be 'means and lifestyle' tested. Do you smoke, are you overweight, driink, are you rich - then you pay for some of your costs based on your lifestyle and means
3) Some NHS procedures would be shipped out to overseas private healthcare which would be cheaper - I cant remember the exact details of this one, but as I recall quite a bit of it was going to be Elective or Outpatient non-risky procedures (hip replacements type of thing).

It was a labour government in at the time (cant remember who was PM) and no idea where the proposals came from (an NHS board, NHS UK, or central government) - there was a few meetings about it, but then the project just vanished, never to be spoken of again.

There was one other item added during the discussion from a Snr NHS doctor/policy advisor which was made the most sense to me which was..

4) Set a clock for 50 years time, and pass a law saying on 50 years from today, there would be no more free NHS as by that time the country could not afford it. So everybody is on notice, they will need private medical insurance by that date. This would result in lifestyle changes as the unfit (see above re drinking, smoking, fat, etc) would need to get in shape else pay through the nose for insurance.

I cant see any of these proposals working, and I cant see Jo Public being happy about an NHS tax - after all, thats what NI payments were originally for as far as I am aware (and I am happy to be corrected, that and defence) - I am sure that if there were any major tax or policy changes as above, the youngsters would be up in arms about how the oldies had had it good and now the youngsters had to pay.

[AtW]

they will need private medical insurance by that date.

I've got private medical, thanks to the Ltd (paying BIK on it obviously), the price is so low that I have serious doubts about what they'll really do, AFAIK, they are offloading anything serious long term problem to NHS anyway and it's NHS that will do some of the ops for them anyway, so the prices for private medical would go up BIG time.

Also in your story, which sounds very much plausible, the costs will be shifted to people via increased insurance rates - BIG time too.

[jonnyboy]

I've got private medical, thanks to the Ltd (paying BIK on it obviously), the price is so low that I have serious doubts about what they'll really do, AFAIK, they are offloading anything serious long term problem to NHS anyway and it's NHS that will do some of the ops for them anyway, so the prices for private medical would go up BIG time.

Indeed... I have private as well (have done every since I started working on NHS projects and see how bad it was from the back end), and on the odd 1 or 2 times my wife needed it (nothing for me so far touch wood) we also ways end up seeing an NHS consultant anyway, doing the work via a private contract... so its really there just to skip a few lines.

[CretinWatcher]

Private medical insurance as done in the UK is very different to public health insurance as done in France and Germany. For a start all conditions are treated and (some) funds are not for for profit. There is no question of not being treated for certain conditions, no exclusions, as in some Uk private insurance.
It is just that there is public private mix and the system is far more geared to the patient with much more choice, as opposed to the NHS which runs like a Soviet bureaucracy.

[VectraMan]

Indeed... I have private as well (have done every since I started working on NHS projects and see how bad it was from the back end), and on the odd 1 or 2 times my wife needed it (nothing for me so far touch wood) we also ways end up seeing an NHS consultant anyway, doing the work via a private contract... so its really there just to skip a few lines.

It's all very blurry. I managed to get diagnosed on the NHS, saw an NHS surgeon, then had the surgery done by the same bloke privately paid by my (former) employer's insurance, and now have the ongoing chronic (or crohnic) disease managed by an NHS consultant. And by "privately" I mean I got a private room in an NHS hospital. And by "paid for" I mean mostly paid for as I ended up paying £380. I don't think I got the surgery any sooner either.

It seems all the consultants work both sides of the street (literally here as the private hospital is the other side of the street from the NHS one).

[Flashman]

You can't have the best quality AND the cheapest at the same time, not in health industry, you cretin!

So your crap but cheap? We've all seen a few contractors like that !