Brexit Economics Lesson 1 - Who has the real power in negotiations

[meridian]

This is a bit stark but some of it I agree with.

Can you not understand why people want to protect their income and standard of living though? Up against an unfair cost base and with much of the money earned by immigrants from around the world being repatriated to their country? Money leaving our economy which then decreases as a result.

Do you have any evidence for money earned by EU immigrants being repatriated (that is the context, EU free movement)? Evidence for it being "much of the money earned"?

How does this compare to money leaving the country to go to India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Russia, USA, etc? I.e. Non-EU.

How does it compare to money leaving the UK by UK citizens to buy second homes in Spain, Portugal, France, Germany?

[GB9]

Do you have any evidence for money earned by EU immigrants being repatriated (that is the context, EU free movement)? Evidence for it being "much of the money earned"?

How does this compare to money leaving the country to go to India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Russia, USA, etc? I.e. Non-EU.

How does it compare to money leaving the UK by UK citizens to buy second homes in Spain, Portugal, France, Germany?

Did you bother to read my post properly? I used the word worldwide for a reason.

And whilst I don't expect you to have read any of my other posts, I have previously stated that eu immigration isn't really an issue for me. Most IT competition comes from outside.

[vetran]

It wasn't the EU's to sort out.

It was up to Camoron to put in legislation to make it very difficult for anyone to claim benefits unless they had been resident for in the UK for years. Other EU countries have that legislation.

As you have a number of recent joiners with the countries average salary is one fifth to one tenth of our minimum wage what you will get is labour crossing the EU to take on low paid jobs for what are Rock Star salaries at home. As a Double whammy they get tax credits (thanks el Gordo) access to our NHS & schools which are chargeable back home.

So imagine you are an Albanian school teacher with 3 kids and you can earn the equivalent of £120K a year tax free in the UK waiting on tables and your sick daughter can get free treatment & schooling what do you do? I would move to the UK and live in a shared house for a few years then go back to buy a whole village.

As we know most people on minimum wage with kids are effectively subsidised by better paid people and we could have a local do that job even if they need a little encouragement then its a net loss.

Nothing illegal or immoral but its bad for the UK & UK salaries. Only good for large business who pay very little tax anyway.

Now if there were a shortage of school teachers and the Albanian came across & earnt £40k+ the economics are different so him getting a working Visa makes sense.

[vetran]

We can either accept their workers and let them send some money back, or bribe them with more foreign aid. Either way we need to protect our interests.

why should we bribe Poland?

If you convert freedom of movement with a preferential work visa system the problems disappear.

[SueEllen]

As you have a number of recent joiners with the countries average salary is one fifth to one tenth of our minimum wage what you will get is labour crossing the EU to take on low paid jobs for what are Rock Star salaries at home. As a Double whammy they get tax credits (thanks el Gordo) access to our NHS & schools which are chargeable back home.

So imagine you are an Albanian school teacher with 3 kids and you can earn the equivalent of £120K a year tax free in the UK waiting on tables and your sick daughter can get free treatment & schooling what do you do? I would move to the UK and live in a shared house for a few years then go back to buy a whole village.

As we know most people on minimum wage with kids are effectively subsidised by better paid people and we could have a local do that job even if they need a little encouragement then its a net loss.

Nothing illegal or immoral but its bad for the UK & UK salaries. Only good for large business who pay very little tax anyway.

Now if there were a shortage of school teachers and the Albanian came across & earnt £40k+ the economics are different so him getting a working Visa makes sense.

Albania isn't in the EU.

[CretinWatcher]

Albania isn't in the EU.

MM thought Czech Republic wasn't though ....

[SueEllen]

why should we bribe Poland?

So they do our biding when we take a stand against Germany.

If you convert freedom of movement with a preferential work visa system the problems disappear.

That's for the UK government to sort out. If all benefits came via the DWP and people weren't allowed them for x years, and there weren't massive holes in our tax legislation then less people would be inclined to come.

[vetran]

Albania isn't in the EU.

Its an Accession county and coming to an EU near you soon.

However what I wrote counts for Romania, Poland etc.

[SueEllen]

Its an Accession county and coming to an EU near you soon.

However what I wrote counts for Romania, Poland etc.

So is Turkey and they aren't joining any time soon.

[sal]

Not a problem, instead of 200k Asian and 100k EU immigrants we will get 300k Asian immigrants from now on. Most of these people are coming here to work and actually find work or even start their own business. Of course there is small subset that comes here to abuse the system and claim benefits, but i highly doubt the proportion is much different than the Brits doing the same.

Instead of fixing it's own problem, UK tipically shifts the blame to the EU as the source of all evil. EU is confederacy every major decision needs to be approved by ALL member states including the UK. So someone from UK singed, but some how it's not his fault it's the evil EU oppressor.

One of the goals of the EU is to equalise living standards across Europe. The motives here are not entirely altruistic. Until you have a large disparity between the East and West Europe East Europeans will whatever it takes to migrate and find a better life. Restrict them too much and you get illegal immigration with all the crime associated with it. Think of the Prohibition in the US, see how that one turned out.

Probably for the first time in recent history UK will have to negotiate as the weaker side in the negotiations