Excellent article by Liam Fox on EU

[Old Greg]

Did Kennedy know the details when he inspired to put man on the moon. The U.S. Hadn't put a man in to space!

So when you have those details, come back and let us know.

[sasguru]

Jesus Christ. We put man on the moon, split the atom, invented the microchip.

.

That was the Americans.
Most Brits are very much like you.
And you cant even buy a decent house.

[VectraMan]

That last part is what the remainiacs consistently fail to grasp. Their generally limited intellects mean they tend to think of everything in black and white, with "in" meaning cooperation and "out" isolation.

Can you imagine if every one of the 32 members of the EFTA had to negotiate a similar trade deal they get with the EU with every other one of the 32 members of the EFTA, each looking out for their own self interest?

Is that 32 factorial agreements? I never did statistics, but if that is that's 263,130,836,933,693,530,167,218,012,160,000,000 agreements between different countries to get the same as what everyone has now by agreeing to form a bloc.

[The_Equalizer]

That was the Americans.
Most Brits are very much like you.
And you cant even buy a decent house.

What I want to know is, despite multiple threads, hundreds of posts and general nastiness , and anyone changed their mind in either direction?

[OwlHoot]

Can you imagine if every one of the 32 members of the EFTA had to negotiate a similar trade deal they get with the EU with every other one of the 32 members of the EFTA, each looking out for their own self interest?

Is that 32 factorial agreements? I never did statistics, ...

Yes, it shows. The answer is 32^2 which, to save you the effort of working it out, is 1024

and in practice it wouldn't be anything like that number. Don't forget, the EU needs export markets as much as they want imports.

edit: Actually as no EFTA member negotiates a trade deal with themselves, the answer is actually 31^2, which I'll leave as an exercise for VectraMan

[OwlHoot]

What I want to know is, despite multiple threads, hundreds of posts and general nastiness , and anyone changed their mind in either direction?

I think Sas was wavering at one point, but has now relapsed.

What is it the Good Book says?

As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Proverbs 26, 11

[Old Greg]

Can you imagine if every one of the 32 members of the EFTA had to negotiate a similar trade deal they get with the EU with every other one of the 32 members of the EFTA, each looking out for their own self interest?

Is that 32 factorial agreements? I never did statistics, but if that is that's 263,130,836,933,693,530,167,218,012,160,000,000 agreements between different countries to get the same as what everyone has now by agreeing to form a bloc.

Yes, it shows. The answer is 32^2 which, to save you the effort of working it out, is 1024

and in practice it wouldn't be anything like that number. Don't forget, the EU needs export markets as much as they want imports.

Isn't the answer 31 +30 + 29 etc. = 496?

Mind you, I'm an arts grad, so no good at this kind of stuff.

[Old Greg]

What I want to know is, despite multiple threads, hundreds of posts and general nastiness , and anyone changed their mind in either direction?

I've gone from Leave to Remain over the last year.

[The_Equalizer]

I've gone from Leave to Remain over the last year.

There's always one. You're more than welcome back you know.

[OwlHoot]

Isn't the answer 31 +30 + 29 etc. = 496?

Mind you, I'm an arts grad, so no good at this kind of stuff.

Hmm yes, the easiest way to think of it is a 32 by 32 square grid, with the entries down the diagonal blank, so that is 32^2 - 32.

But then due to the symmetry every treaty is counted twice. So you end up with 32 * (32 - 1) / 2 treaties, which is 496