Pope Francis says freedom of speech has limits

[pjclarke]

Freedom of spech is indivisible. Me, I find the idea of a man in his fifties marrying a 6 year old girl and consummating the union after she reaches her 9th birthday pretty nauseating, however I don't go around shooting those who worship this sicko ....

[AtW]

People can believe whatever the hell they want, however they got no right to force their views on others, nevermind murdering for alternative views!

[original PM]

Freedom of spech is indivisible. Me, I find the idea of a man in his fifties marrying a 6 year old girl and consummating the union after she reaches her 9th birthday pretty nauseating, however I don't go around shooting those who worship this sicko ....

You are not supposed to take this literally it's just a parable...unless it tells you to kill someone then you can take it literally or if you want give it a completely different interpretation - does not matter as long as you can justify it by saying he told you to do it

fookin loons...

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy, while I agree and yes Dave Allen was superb at his satirical prods at religions it's not the likes of us that are inclined to get really grumpy about a comment or cartoon.

We are part of a culture that views free speech as a right and a duty, but as we're all well aware there are "cultures" that don't value it, regard those that exercise free speech as a target and have such a minimal regard for human life and well being that violent response is automatic. Some of those groups may even regard a violent response as a religious duty.

It's a damn shame the population of the world is predominantly ignorant, ill educated, prone to listening to nutters and easily stirred to violence, but it's a reality that only the naive ignore.

Which is exactly what the whole "fight" is all about. Dave Allen lampooned the Catholic church and those in power within it. Because catholicism exists within the free world there was little the pope and his cabal of followers could do about it. Once the veil of unquestioned authority was lifted by the lakes of Allen people were no longer afraid to question it. Look what has happened since with the arrests of large numbers of priests.

Exactly the same levels of control are exacted by leaders in politics, business, healthcare you name it. These institutions thanks to the media and comedy can no longer imprison people within their ideology.
islam and its "prophets/leaders are going to have to live by the same laws as the rest of us, even if the liberal left think we should patronise them by allowing them to live by different rules.

[AtW]

Larry Flint.

[unixman]

Dave Allen pioneered the satirisation of religion quite brilliantly whilst respecting each individuals right to believe in whatever god they believed.

Dave Allen's humour was much milder than Hebdo's, and more intelligent, putting him much closer to the balance point you mention IMO.

Also he was so likeable and funny that everyone tuned in, including those he aimed the jokes at. The common sense of those days seems a world away from today's extreme climate.

On one side you have an army of trolls who won't be happy until they have provoked World War III. Against them are an equally extreme army of PC offendetrons who will get you sacked for using the word "girl". Common sense ? We've never heard of it.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I think he's wrong. Speaking is just that and nothing more.

Unless that speaking constitutes conspiracy to do something bad.
I guess its the difference between saying hurtful things that might anger other people to act violently, and actually telling people they should do violent things.

The first is free speech - the later *might* be considered conspiracy to do badness, depending on the context etc.

[Paddy]

Freedom of spech is indivisible. Me, I find the idea of a man in his fifties marrying a 6 year old girl and consummating the union after she reaches her 9th birthday pretty nauseating, however I don't go around shooting those who worship this sicko ....

Even worse is the excuse as given in the Koran is that Mohammed can have all the women he wants in order to be satisfied so that he can concentrate on worshipping Allah

[Flashman]

Dave Allen's humour was much milder than Hebdo's, and more intelligent, putting him much closer to the balance point you mention IMO.

Also he was so likeable and funny that everyone tuned in, including those he aimed the jokes at. The common sense of those days seems a world away from today's extreme climate.

On one side you have an army of trolls who won't be happy until they have provoked World War III. Against them are an equally extreme army of PC offendetrons who will get you sacked for using the word "girl". Common sense ? We've never heard of it.

His show was effectively banned in the Republic of Ireland and he received death threats from the IRA in the 1970's.

Something that seems a world away from the present day Republic of Ireland.

Maybe Islam needs to move into the 21st century to?

[TykeMerc]

His show was effectively banned in the Republic of Ireland and he received death threats from the IRA in the 1970's.

Something that seems a world away from the present day Republic of Ireland.

Maybe Islam needs to move into the 21st century to?

It's not a world away, there's a lot of sectarian nastiness potential just under the surface there, but it's off the boil compared to 30-40 years ago and it had gone on for a few decades. Fact is the end to the widespread Irish nastiness took quite a while and a lot of bridge building.

Some of the extreme Islamic trouble makers have barely started knocking the bridges down let alone thought about how they could be rebuilt and the differences are vastly wider than just flavours of Christianity amongst people who broadly had the same culture and upbringing.
I doubt you can compare them and personally I'd love to see the problems end a damn sight sooner than 50+ years.